Could it be that people who have listened to music for so long are so used to distortion coming from their systems, home, car etc..that without it music seems lifeless?
‘The more I think about it, the more I wonder. How many of us have listened to live music without it going through some sort of electronic equipment. Does the music even get distorted at a live show going through electronics? So, how many of us have heard pure music from instruments without it being altered in some sense, even by acoustics in a venue. Perhaps we’ve been trained from years of hearing it one way. To the point of not really appreciating what pure music may be, or as close a class d may be getting to perfect frequency response.
Expanding the Class D Conversation: How Would You Characterize Their Differences?
Expanding the Class D Conversation: How Would You Characterize Their Differences?
I'm currently trialing the NAD M23 (1st gen. Eigentakt-based), and I find it intriguing enough to want to understand it better — which means understanding the broader sonic landscape of class D. So I'm crowd-sourcing.
In a recent exchange, the estimable Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere Music Systems) made two comments that stopped me cold. For those who missed it, here's what he said:
"IME, class D amps vary in sound more than tube amps, which is to say, quite a lot."
"IMO there is a bigger difference between various class D amps than you hear between various tube amps. IOW just because you heard one class D amp says nothing about how the next one might sound."
Link: https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2885828
As I think through this more carefully, these are genuinely important claims. My own experience with tube amps confirms that they produce audibly distinct characters across topologies and designs. If Ralph is right and class D exceeds that range, then generalizing from one class D experience to another is even more hazardous than I assumed.
One specific question for Audiogon members:
If you have a Class D amp or have compared class D amplifiers, how would you describe their character(s)?
Here are some criteria I use:
- Frequency balance — Is the tonal response even across bass, mids, and treble, or does it favor certain regions?
- High-frequency texture — Are the highs extended and smooth, or edgy, grainy, and fatiguing?
- Bass definition — Is the low end tight and articulate, or loose and bloated?
- Midrange character — Does the midrange feel present and natural, or recessed and thin?
- Transient speed — Does the amp respond quickly to dynamic attacks, or does it sound sluggish and rounded?
- Dynamic range — Does it scale convincingly from quiet passages to loud ones, or compress the difference?
- Soundstage width and depth — Does it create a convincing three-dimensional image, or sound flat and narrow?
- Image specificity — Are instruments and voices placed precisely, or do they blur and wander?
- Background noise floor — Is the silence between notes actually silent, or is there grain, haze, or hash?
- Long-term listenability — After an extended session, do you want to keep listening, or has something been quietly fatiguing you?
If you can include relevant system context — room, speakers, preamp — please do. Those variables will help me interpret what the amp itself is contributing.
I'm less interested in rankings than in understanding what Ralph mentioned, namely the [vast] range of sonic signatures class D is capable of. Eigentakt, Hypex, Pascal, Purifi, GaN-based, etc. — all fair game.
Price is no constraint here — I'm interested in the full range of what's out there.
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@hilde45 i have been listening to these amps for about two months now. I used to hold the opinion that measurement obsession was bad and any good measuring amp was going to sound poor. It is why I have been using tubes in my reference system till December. I have researched extensively why these seem not to suck the life out of the music. The 800s don’t just measure “low distortion.” They measure low across frequency, level, and load. That means tiny dynamic shifts — breath, string texture, vocal inflection — aren’t masked. You’re hearing the signal emerge from blackness, not etched detail. Linn prioritizes timing (PRaT isn’t marketing fluff for them). The 800s preserve phase integrity and transient timing. When timing is right, music feels alive — when it’s off, even slightly, things feel dry. This is true across all Linn products including their speakers Many “musical” amps achieve engagement by adding harmonic sweetness. The 800s don’t add bloom — but they also don’t create upper-mid glare or HF hash. The absence of edge is perceived as ease. Linn’s Dynamik supply and rail switching keep voltage incredibly stable. So when music demands current (bass transients, orchestral swings), the amp doesn’t flatten or harden. It stays relaxed and controlled. That composure reads as musical flow, not sterility. This is what a truly extraordinary switching PSU delivers. if they are paired with a good preamp or their Klimax level DSM, musicality is not a problem. I can’s answer what would happen if they were paired with colder gear. I don’t enjoy colder gear so I don’t really have any on hand to test. |
@earthbound Good question! Let me push back on "live music" as the singular standard here on two counts. First, live venues are often acoustically compromised — reverberant halls, poor PA mixing, variable sightlines — and frequently sound worse than a well-assembled stereo. Anyone who has sat under a balcony at a large concert hall or suffered a muddy festival PA knows that "live" is not automatically a sonic benchmark. Second, and more fundamentally, a large proportion of the music most of us actually love — studio recordings, electronic music, much jazz and pop — was never a live acoustic event in the first place. It was created *in* the recording medium. Setting live unamplified music as the reference standard for evaluating reproduced sound is a much narrower criterion than it first appears.
This is a very clear statement as to why it’s not "measures well VERSUS adding harmonics for musicality." There are multiple paths toward "musical." They all involve listening and measuring and, of course, if a company only seeks measurements, they are unlikely to get to "musical." Frankly, I’m tired of this non-issue. |
Great question, and could be. :) You might be on to something perhaps. A decade ago doing some updated research on what type of guitar amplifiers were being used on well known songs we all loved from the 60s, 70s, and part of the 80s. At the time, I was really into EL34 tube amps at home, loving the distortion, and play back of those same songs originally played and recorded as such. Playback on the same types of tubes they were originally recorded in, etc. i.e. EL34 tubes are famously associated with the "British sound" of Marshall amplifiers, creating a warm, lush, and punchy tone with prominent midrange that defined much of 1960s and 70s rock. They are known for breaking up early, offering a creamy, rich distortion. My friends new Guitar amp: -a good friend was giddy about his new guitar amp coming soon, and all of his other amps were Marshalls, we had come to love the sound of, and for his band. Well, the new solid state (non tube) guitar amp showed up with the Class-D for the lower bass section, not sure how it was configured. The sound was quite different. Sure, fast, clean, snappy. Most of the former tone, texture, decay, and transition of notes from one string to the next was not there any more. More strident. Sure, you could hear a bit more of those notes, yet how it was presented in [more strident] and less pleasant way was definitely being compared to a former sound both of us were "so used to" before. I sort of agree with your question and why you bring it up. Yep, possibly so. If today's generation of new audiophiles grows up with early version Class-D amps and sound, with electronic crossovers involved too, perhaps they might prefer this type of sound over what older Class-A SS/Tube amps offer. Could be, and to your point. Interesting question btw. |
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