Tube rolling in Hagerman Trumpet MC


I have been doing some tube rolling in the Trumpet MC and am trying to be a sure as I can that I don't substitute a tube that could cause a problem.

It looks like from my very poor reading of the schematics that the V1 12ax7's are for initial gain pre RIAA, the second pair V2 are phase splitter post RIAA, and the 12au7's V3 are driver/output/cathode follower (not sure about that last one as the circuit doe not look like a typical cathode follower circuit and even looks like anode follower?).  Any enlightenment here would be helpful.  This is because even tubes that are considered "drop in" substitutes are not actually identical on the manufacturer spec sheets.  For instance the 5418 has a slightly higher heater current than and au7 and there might be another parameter that is different (Vhk?).  Even the 7316 is slightly different.  And of course the 5751 has lower gain than a ax7 as well as other differences.  Many of the differences are still within spec, and given what I can see from the online schematic of the Trumpet MC, look like no problem, but I just want to make sure.  I have emailed Jim Hagerman and he has been helpful when I have, but I hate to keep bugging him with my questions, so I will bug you guys instead.

Thanks for you help and the bandwidth.

oceanica

chickenoregg, Regarding the E80CC, Jim Hagerman probably would not approve on the same grounds by which he did not approve of the FQ7, the excess heater current requirement. And the FQ7 is more like a 12AU7 than is the E80CC.  The fact that you got away with subbing the E80CC with a 12AU7, and I got away with subbing the FQ7 for the 12AU7 in my Quicksilver preamp (with audibly positive results) have no bearing on the question of the Trumpet.

You asked about my statement, "Honestly, I think tube rolling is way over-rated and prone to expectation bias on the part of the listener." To which you responded, "I am genuinely curious to know what gear you rolled what tubes in to no or little effect?"

First, I did not and would not say there is NO effect, but I would say it has little effect, and here is what I mean when I say that: (1) Tubes age; any beneficial effect you hear at first is probably not going to last forever for that reason. (2) There is a lot of fraud these days in vacuum tube sales in that vendors know what audiophiles want and the market is replete with fake copies of TFK, Mullard, Amperex, etc, branded tubes.  That would deter me from making new purchases of rare NOS tubes for fear that they are copies. I do have a stash of all the named brands that I purchased NOS back in the 1970ss in their original boxes, mostly 12AX7, AT7, and AU7.  As well as 5687 and its congeners, and yadayada. I trust my stash but not some other guy’s recently purchased samples. (3) My prior experience tube rolling suggested to me that the expensive rare brands, even authentic ones, do not always sound as good as some of the modern tubes made in the far East or in Eastern Europe, let alone do they sound any better.  I will not make any generalizations, but when I compared a slew of different NOS 12AT7s at the input of my Atma-sphere amplifiers, probably about 20 years ago, the best sounding without any doubt were tubes made in China and purchased from Billington in the UK.  Problem with them was a short lifespan. (4) Tubes depend upon the contact points between the pins and the tube socket.  Tube sockets do not always age well or maintain a tight fit on the pins.  This alone can cause the sensation that performance is fading.  Few of us pay attention to that and even fewer of us clean tube pins and tube sockets periodically to assure good contact. (I do pins with Q tips and sockets with tiny wire brushes made for the job,) When you pull one tube and replace it with another, you are per se cleaning the tube socket by friction and by the fact that some dirt comes out with the pins of the old tube. That is one cause of a false positive sense of achievement. (5) Expectation bias is a real thing and every one of us is susceptible to it.

 

Fellow Trumpet MC enthusiast here, and I agree that upgrading to a linear power supply is worthwhile. And I tube roll anytime I switch my cartridge, I've got it down to a formula now for each cartridge and it works very well for me. 

To all,

thanks for conversation.

@chickenoregg 

I am impressed that you are willing to send out tunes on approval.  Please pm me, I would like to see if we can work together.

@lewm 

Thank you for your comments and advice.  Yes double the heater current was concerning to Jim, and he is very honest, so I am going to do what he advises.

To those who recommend the Sbooster, I asked about this too.  I noticed on looking over the schematics that Mr. Hagerman used a 555 “chip” as an internal power supply to get the voltage to the rails (at least that is what it looks like to me with my very limiter ability in that area).  So, if there is no way to bypass the internal switching power supply,, how would and external LPS make any real difference?  JH, basically had the same opinion and also said that some folks who tried it reported improvement.  
Given confirmation bias, etc., I would be happy to try an Sbooster if someone would loan one to me to try.  I would cover shipping both ways if needed.  Otherwise I am content to leave that out.

My new speakers should be here soon and I am pretty sure they will make a much more significant difference in the sound of my system.

 

555 is a timer, probably used to delay application of plate voltage after filament voltage is first applied after turn on.

To those who recommend the Sbooster, I asked about this too. I noticed on looking over the schematics that Mr. Hagerman used a 555 “chip” as an internal power supply to get the voltage to the rails (at least that is what it looks like to me with my very limiter ability in that area). So, if there is no way to bypass the internal switching power supply,, how would and external LPS make any real difference? JH, basically had the same opinion and also said that some folks who tried it reported improvement.  

Given confirmation bias, etc., I would be happy to try an Sbooster if someone would loan one to me to try. I would cover shipping both ways if needed. Otherwise I am content to leave that out.

 

Well, speaking from my own experience, the difference from the switching power supply to the sbooster was not a subtle one at all. It was pretty transformative. As to why, I don't know enough to really answer authoritatively. I have a general understanding that switching power supplies are "noisier" and that good linear power supplies (like the sbooster) have a lot more power filtering. That being said, I highly recommend the power supply upgrade over a tube one any day of the week.