??? Established Manufacturer or Take A Chance ???


With the proliferation of gear makers going belly up I got to thinking about this...
 You are getting pretty long in the tooth & have an itch to build what will most likely be the system playing at your wake,hopefully not for another 15 years give or take...
 Lets say you already chose your speakers & are now looking to get the amp to drive them..You've done the shortlist,spent some time running around to demo components accessible to you and narrowed your choices down to 3 or 4 pieces...
  Here is your conundrum.. 1 or 2 of your choices are made by long established manufacturers & the others are fairly new in the industry,say 2-3 years and priced around 20% less than the well known models...
 Remember,EVERYTHING else about them is equal...Do you pony up & buy from the well established makers or do you take a chance on a new to the industry maker & save some coin?Please expound on why you decided the way you did...
 
 

freediver

The belief that " if something is expensive, it must be good " is influenced by several psychological and social factors:

  1. Perceived Quality: Higher prices often signal better quality. Consumers may assume that more expensive products use superior materials or craftsmanship.
  2. Scarcity and Exclusivity: Expensive items are often less accessible, creating a sense of exclusivity. People may value these items more because they are not widely available, leading to a perception of higher status.
  3. Social Proof: When people see others purchasing expensive items, it can create a bandwagon effect. If many people believe something is worth its high price, others may follow suit to align with that social norm.
  4. Brand Influence: Established brands often charge more due to their reputation. Consumers may trust these brands more, associating their higher prices with reliability and prestige.
  5. Cognitive Dissonance: After spending a significant amount of money, consumers may rationalize their purchase by believing the product is of high quality, even if it may not be.
  6. Marketing and Advertising: Luxury brands often use marketing strategies that emphasize quality and exclusivity, reinforcing the idea that their higher prices reflect superior products.

Overall, these factors create a psychological association between price and quality, leading many to prefer more expensive options.

How it is so very liberating to not be captured by the Influences of widely exposed Branding and the Brands careful adoption of Psychological Manipulation using Mirroring Techniques.

If individuals really want to be lead into the ensnarement and believe whilst ensnared, that they must part with a particular amount of money to achieve a certain type of End Sound, that is way beyond what lesser costing purchases can offer, who am I to suggest these individuals consider a different option to create a version of an End Sound.

If an individual is curious as to whether they need to venture into the world of investigating widely exposed Brands to achieve a certain type of End Sound, or if End Sound can be attained that is parity or better from lesser costing options. These individuals do not need to look to far, as I have supplied a very very good starting place for them to commence a investigation.        

It's an interesting question.  Ten or twenty years ago there was a fad for what I call "gutbucket" amps, old PA or organ amps hacked up, spray painted weird colors and purporting to have a "magical" sound.  Most of them were junk.  But there are some very good boutique amp builders out there today who can use high-end components and interesting designs that aren't cost-efficient for a large manufacturer.  In fact, some boutique amps from the 80's, 90's and even 2000's have achieved legendary status and command pretty good prices.

 

First of all, I think that you have to have some experience, enough to know what you want.  You've determined that CJ or Cary or Rogue or McIntosh or whoever aren't offering what you crave.  You're looking for something really special.  SNS makes a very valid point that for truly special SET amps, you're almost forced to seek a bespoke amp because there are so few "commercial" offerings out there.

 

I think there are a few things that need to be considered. 

 

  1. Resale value.  Best not to think about that.  If it's a really well-made piece, and you find after a time that you want to move on, chances are someone will want it.  But bespoke amps are not for eternal swappers.
  2. Build quality.  It should be obvious even to the untrained eye, but you can always ask others to take a look and see what they think.  A photo of the underside should really be part of the buying process.
  3. Circuit design.  Will ANYONE else down the road be able to figure it out?  If not, you might want to stay away.
  4. Support.  Will the builder stand behind the amp, come what may?
  5. Schematic.  Will the builder provide a schematic?  The truth is, there's almost nothing new under the sun when it comes to tubes.  And really, what's the big secret?  Are thousands of DIYers going to copy your amp?

 

I build Williamson amplifiers.  That's all I build, but I find them fascinating because every build offers new challenges and rewards--a different output tube, a different output transformer, a new trick in the power supply.  I'm like the character in the Inspector Wallender mysteries who only paints one painting, over and over. ;-)  But here's the thing: A Williamson is a Williamson.  Any tech, or even a skilled amateur, can diagnose and repair it.  I provide a schematic.  You want to copy it?  Be my guest!  I authored a thread over at diyaudioprojects.com showing you how to do it, and even posted the gerbers for the PCBs I had designed. (BTW, there's NOTHING wrong with a quality PCB.)

 

My point is that boutique amps can be very satisfying if there's ample documentation and communication.  But there's no question that it's a risk if you have no idea *what you're looking for.*

@dogearedaudio You are familiar with a BOM for components used in a circuit and parts required to support the circuits function.

If you were to decide to change from Williamson Designs and buy a New Off The Shelf Amp' supplied by a widely exposed Brand.

How much money do you suggest is required to be spent to acquire and Amp' that surpasses the Williamson Design?

How much difference in monies do you think one Amp's BOM would be as a comparison to the other, especially if leaving casing out of the calculation? 

  

 

If I understand your question correctly, it’s not really about money.  The only costly thing about a Williamson is the output transformer.  It must be able to tolerate 20dB of feedback, and remain stable without exhibiting extreme phase shifts beyond the audio band.  That’s not necessarily a deal-breaker.  I’ve seen stable Williamson clones using Edcor and Hammond transformers.  But then you get into the issue of sonic integrity and distortion characteristics with a lesser transformer.  

 

The Williamson has a distinct signature due to the all-triode front end.  It offers a solidity and realism that other designs don’t.  It was abandoned in the late 1950’s because other designs, like the Mullard, were cheaper and more stable and could offer more power with less fuss.  In my opinion, once you push the Williamson past 30-35 watts, it loses its magic.  To my knowledge  no one offers a commercial Williamson design these days.

 

What would I buy instead?  I don’t know.  I’ve heard a lot of tube amps over the years but none of them "floated my boat" like the Williamson.  But I certainly haven’t heard them all.  I will say that, when the circumstances are right and you turn someone on to a Williamson, it’s pretty captivating.