Garrard 301 motor and rumble
I had my 301 restored but I still complain about rumble at high volume. Iv'e been bitching about the plinth I made, but I just lifted the platter to see if perhaps the motor was the issue. when you engage the idler and apply a little pressure to engage fully, I feel the vibration. Either the brass speed selection post is not true or its the motor transmitting the vibration, but the motor seems very smooth.
What steps should I employ to figure this out?
That is my impression as well. Indeed, some people enjoy dropping these rhetorical "bombs," finding some satisfaction in them. I generally avoid that kind of engagement, whether online or in person. |
Thanks Lewm and Ralph. Ralph for your candor and integrity and Lewm for giving me some needed perspective and advice to settle down. Ralph is a prime example of what is good on this Board-sharing information and assisting others when asked. It is unfortunate that some take delight in playing at or being the provocateur. Others feel that this a forum for verbal combat and I am not blameless in that regard. For what it is worth Lewm, I don't prefer idlers. I fell into them. My TD124 was my Dad's. He bought it in a NYC audio shop the same year that I was born, 1959, while on a work related trip for Wright Patterson AFB. After deciding that several different VPI decks were not for me, I took on the project of having his mothballed and non-operational 124 first repaired and then modified and hot-rodded to the nines. The custom stainless steel bearing assembly utilizes two ball bearings rotating on top of each other and was designed and custom made (IIRC) by Greg Metz and is no longer in production. The platter is much heavier than standard and also supplied from Greg. I don't recall his source. Much of this is detailed in my profile with photos. After being amazed at the results of this project, I again "fell" into buying a near NOS early grease bearing 301 and again having it modded to the max with parts mostly sourced from Ray at Classic HiFi in the UK. However, after trying his hugely massive brass platter along the lines of the Shindo I ended up happiest with the custom copper topped alloy 301 platter sold by Steve Dobbins. I will readily admit that the beauty of the custom plinth options that are integral to an all-out effort at making an idler perform at its best was part of my motivation and remains a large part of my pride of ownership. You won't find that kind of aesthetic with virtually any DD or belt drive deck. This of course being a matter of taste and purely subjective. When Brian Walsh of TTsetup.com first laid eyes on the plinth to my 301 his comment was "this belongs in a museum-I have never seen such a beautiful plinth" (yes, the "gentleman" referenced above will quip it belongs in a museum as an historical relic). . I believe the Reed 3P's with their German made "Firewire" continuous wiring from RCA's to cartridge clips-along with the all of the other attributes of the tonearm design-contribute to a large degree to my overall happiness with the result. I would go so far as to say that is very likely that the same Reed 3P's mated to a very good belt or direct drive table would result in equally pleasurable though slightly different sound. And for the record (pun intended), everything I ever say in this forum and on this Board is just my humble opinion and I almost always say so. |
I just ignore him now…. i made errors of engagement along the way… @fsonicsmith I have my Dad’s 1961 MC240….. immeasurable joy
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And there you have it. AC synchronous motors particularly the three phase ones are the best turntable motors because they automatically apply corrective torque. The older motors had to rely on the AC lines frequency which is held within limits but is not as stable as an electronically applied signal which can be changed to adjust speed. The old idler drives might be accurate to lines frequency for a short period. Watch one start up. There is so much initial slippage in the drive as it fights to get the platter up to speed which is why the idler wheel wears irregularly causing speed irregularity and rumble. If you use boosted subwoofers it is virtually impossible to stay ahead of it. The cost of a modern electronically controlled three phase motors is not cheap and may well cost more than an idler drive especially the older ones which when manufactured in numbers where cheap. A CD transport is more complicated and they are dirt cheap. Belt drives are certainly simpler which is perhaps the main reason they are so effective. If you have a thing against belt drive tables Direct Drive is a much better way to go from a raw performance perspective. And, no the belt on the SOTA does not slip as the Eclipse Drive has a soft start up feature. Torquey bastard too. It is hard to stop it. If a record does not seal (warped too much) I hold the rim of the record down with two fingernails at 180 degrees during startup and usually will get it to seal. Am I making the belt slip then? Good question. Next time I start it up like that I'll take the motor cover off and have a look. I have not seen any deterioration in the wow and flutter yet. I am also fortunate in that I can see the speed of the turntable down to 1/1000th of an RPM and it does not waver. Getting cold feet? Wood bases can be a beautiful thing. Might I suggest Macassar Ebony? My Dad had this HUGE Rek-O-Kut turntable with a HUGE ESL tonearm on it, very impressive. No antiskating. Some fool mounted it in a fancy custom cabinet right on the veneered plywood. Talking about feedback and footfall on top of the rumble. Fortunately, he also had an Ampex R2R. That was heaven, a lot of hiss, but heaven none the less. My first table was a used TD 124II with an ADC Pritchard tonearm soon to be exchange for an SME. That required shoveling a lot of driveways. The TD124 as you are probably well aware had a hybrid drive. The AC synchronous motor drove the stepped pully via a short belt. I guess the thinking was to isolate the drive from motor noise? Then of course it had two platters, one on top of the other with a clutch for cueing. I never used it. After a few more Winters of shoveling and a little subversion I managed to procure a Revox A77 Dolby. I guess the Apples do not fall far from the tree. Not that I did not buy or play records, But I was never happy with turntables and I had a bunch of them, After the TD there was a Sony, a Micro Seiki, two LP12s, a Transcriptors , an Oracle and finally the first turntable that actually worked really well The SOTA Sapphire I bought in 1981. It worked so well I kept it for 40 years. Like most of us young lions, children put a lock on the audiophile budget. I might add that all those tables I was unhappy with were belt drives. Direct drive tables at the time were not good. They worked well but for whatever reason did not sound as good as belt drives of the day. Nobody did anything with idler drives back then except maybe a changer or two. There is more to a car than raw performance. There are the looks, how it talks to you, how it smells and the silly little things it does like unexpectedly opening it's Frunk as if it is giving you a smile. I see no reason why a turntable can not be as such for some people. So, enjoy your turntable, put it in a nice plinth (Macassar Ebony) and be happy. It is what you like. I would keep a stash of spare idler wheels. |
