A Few Turntable Measurements using the RPM Android App


I found this Android phone app for TT rotation. Phone is Pixel 4a. Thought I'd try this app out. I'm skeptical of these phone apps. Accuracy is always an issue.

I have four tables. I took 5 readings for the first table in order to see what the repeatability is. The "absolute" RPM, RPM peak to peak, and 2 sigma  range readings were very, very repeatable. Consequtive RPM readings differed by a max of  0.01 RPM. Two sigma varied by 0.01% ( 2 sigma means that 86% of the readings were within the stated value). I personally would use 3 sigma, but that's a personal quibble.

I've measured all four of my tables. I am very certain that the results are very repeatable. I measured with no LP, LP rotating,  LP on and Stylus engaged, and phone offset from center. RPM was the same for all cases, The 2 sigma showed a  0.01% rise (really small). The reading at the edge of the LP was different. And scary to do!

Here's the results:

1. DD-40 #1, RPM = 33.32,  2 sigma = 0.07% (63 dB)

2. DD-40 #2, RPM = 33.27,  2 sigma = 0.09% (61 dB)

3. Acoustic Signature WOW XXL, RPM = 33.17,  2 sigma = 0.10% (60 dB). This varied 0.02% from reading to reading (after running the table for 10 minutes, this noise diminishes), but the 2 sigma stayed the same.

4. Denon DP-57L, RPM = 33.25,  2 sigma = 0.02% (74 dB).

 

I then went back to DD-40 #1. Using the RPM app, I set the mean speed to be 33.25. The strobe on the table was slowly moving! I checked against the strobe on the Cardas test LP and yes, the RPM speed accuracy was wrong. I reset TT speed using the strobe. The RPM app measured 33.23 again. I must conclude that although the RPM app is very repeatable, the absolute accuracy is not. The wow result (2 sigma variation) remains the same.

 

I measured the 45 RPM on DD-40 #1. RPM = 44.91, 2 sigma = 0.05%, so the 45 RPM is fairly accurate and the 2 sigma is lower.

 

This app makes no distinction between wow and flutter. It's all reported in the wow reading (wow and flutter are the same thing by nature, the only difference is the frequency range).

 

I'm surprised by the poor performance of the WOW XXL table. This a modern, belt driven table, with a massive platter. It is 5 years old. There's no way for the user to adjust the RPM. The variation in the speed is similar or slightly higher than the 40+ years old Micro Seiki DD-40 tables, which don't have crystal oscillator driven speed control. The WOW XXL takes about 10 minutes before the very high frequency variations settle. Now, I don't know much about the internal workings of the app. Helpful would be better accuracy (or the AC frequency in my house is not 60 Hz). Bandwidth is not reported.

The DP-57L performance is outstanding!. This TT was made in the 80s. And the DD-40 tables are not bad, but are as good as or better than the WOW XXL.

In summary, in my opinion, the RPM Android App is very useful. The absolute accuracy is a bit off, but the repeatability is very good The wow measurement is also quite good.

128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xkevemaher

@mijostyn  : I don't know where you want to arrive. The power is just intrinsical in a live MUSIC event ( no one is preaching there and certainly not the Orchestra Director. ) and I thiink that any one but you already understood what I posted and the links I posted.

For your " 20 + " latest posts in the thread you are living inside that imagin that according with what you already posted in the threads is a main characteristic for any room/system

I don't know know if you attend to live events to enjoy the imagin. Not me. Anyway please tell me what can you appreciate in a single horn player at live SPL if you are seated nearfield say 2m.?. Maybe you know something that I just missed or we are talking of different " things ".

 

R.

Dear @kevemaher  : Obviously that you are not bashing anyone but instead of all those questions where you already have the answers then why not really enhance or apport something where all of us could be beneficiated for example: that you take your knowledge levels and make a mathematic model with measurements with the explanations of : what to measure, where to measure, how to measure and what all those makes sense to you and to any one of us.

Scientifics along neurologists already made some research with measures how the brain and which brain parts react to some sounds and not specific on sounds of the ones in our audio hobby. In the mid-time you can google for those studies that even in Agon ( somewhere )  were posted and again with no relationship with the audio hobby.

 

You can start with your self at the end you are an audio hobbyst.

R.

 

R.

 

R.

@rauliruegas  I would like to understand what type of studies have been made before I make the effort to design and perform the tests needed.

Since my last post I have been searching. I have found one (links below) that seems to be quite thorough and rigorous.

 

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/01/internet-blind-test-is-high-harmonic.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/06/blind-test-results-part-ii-is-high.html

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/blind-test-results-part-i-is-high.html

 

It may not answer all questions on this subject, but does provide some thought provoking results.

@kevemaher 

Trying to do anything over the internet is folly at best. There are way to many uncontrolled variables.

Most of what people say they hear is imagined which is why rigidly controlled studies with a cooperative panel are necessary to say anything.

All audio is personal. We all expect something out of our systems. I want to feel as if I am at a live venue. Needless to say I have never gotten exactly what I expect, close maybe, but not good enough which is why I am still at it. I am a lot closer than I was 25 years ago. This has nothing to do with the enjoyment of music. Most of my listening is done on an inferior workshop system. This is only about the potential performance achievable with todays tech at a less than ridiculous price,

@rauliruegas 

We seem to be like ships passing in the night. Are you saying that you can only achieve a satisfactory level of performance at a live performance and that this is not achievable with a residential system?  I attend a live performance about every other month. The last was Nickle Creek at the State Theater in Portland Maine about one month ago and it was killer. Chris Thile is a major talent. Their recordings are also stellar. Putting them in the media room is easy. Black Midi, not so much. 

All I care about is feeling like I am at a live venue. Many recordings make this impossible but that does not mean that I can not appreciate the voices of Billy Holiday or Enrico Caruso. With many recordings it is. System (includes the room) errors like sibilance and exaggerated high frequencies destroy any possibility.  Amplitude errors are far more pervasive then either IM or Harmonic distortion. What seems to bother me most with turntables is problems that interfere with pitch, more wow than flutter, things like offset spindle holes and warped records.  

@rauliruegas , Only in instances of unamplified acoustic instruments are you going to perceive a real image at a concert. Many larger concerts have no image at all, they are mono. This does not mean that a stereo system can not create the illusion of real instruments before you.