2. amps-preamps
  3. 181995-179554

Improvement over 2002 Denon AVR-3802 for 2 Channel Music System

I currently have a 2002 Denon AVR-3802 that I am using for a dedicated 2 channel audio system.  My room is a converted garage bay, about 15'x24' (with a bunch of guitars and amps and such in it - multi purpose room...)  I have Revel Performa3 M106 stand mounted speakers, and an SVS 3000 Micro sub.  I am streaming using Roon (Qobuz and Tidal as well as DSD "rips" of my SACD collection) into a Ropieee loaded Raspberry Pi 4 into a Geshelli Labs JNOG2 (with AK4493).  I have a Sony BDPS-5100 for playing CDs via coaxial out into the Geshelli (also used for ripping SACDs).  For vinyl. I am using a late '70s JVC QL-A7 with an AT VM540ML cartridge into a Schiit Mani2 pre.

Anyway, overall the sound is really good.  However, I am being tempted by the idea of separates, and what I can do to best improve my experience.  I am thinking middle-of-the-road for now.  No Mark Levinson or Mac (yet).  Candidates include the Parasound P6 pre with either the A21+ or the A23+ power amp, or maybe the Anthem MCA 255 Gen 2 (not going to go all the way to the Anthem STR).  Another extremely interesting idea is the Benchmark AHB2.  For budgetary purposes, I would likely buy an amp first, and continue to use the Denon as a pre for the time being.  I use it in Direct mode, WITH bass management (speakers set to small - sub set to on). Eventually, I would want a pre with Bass Management as well.  Not super interested in a pre with a built-in DAC, but most seem to have this (Including the P6).  After that, a better phono stage...

My quandary is, what will I really gain here with a new amp?  The amp section of the Denon is solid- does not seem to be lacking much other than lower volume push / punch / control and (of course) definition at more extreme SPLs.  I feel like the A21+ would be a significant improvement, but not sure I want to drop $3k on an amp when the current situation is pretty good. 

I guess I am wondering if a lower wattage (closer to that of the Denon's 105 WPC), lower $ amp (like the A23+ for example) will get me any significant (audible) benefits over what I have, or do I need to bite the bullet and go with the A21+ or Anthem.  I know that eventually the Denon will give up the ghost, but I bought it brand new in 2002 and it has never failed me yet.  I just want to get ahead of its inevitable demise.  I know it seems like I am answering my own questions here, but I think I need some affirmation from like-minded folks. 

I'd hate to drop a few grand and be nonplussed with the results.  Not a unique situation, I know. 

Talk me into it.

jazzman999
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
3,651 posts
 

even in an untreated room the difference will be audibile a mass produced avr like your dennoni s built as cheaply as possible so rhr preamp stage and amp are not great

 

so upgrading to a better integrated will give you a

far better sound 

we have a perfect amp for you

unison research due a tube solidstate hybdidintegratedamp with a great built in dac list is 4k

Dave and Troy

Audio intellect  nj

unison research dealer

 

 

jazzman999 OP
6 posts
 

Thanks!  More interested in separates.  I am looking for "old school" - Class AB amp - separate pre / power / phono / DAC.  Not really looking for anything with "big tech" like room correction etc. I want to keep it simple and with the least amount of stuff that requires software updates in the core components.  I work in IT and want to leave the complexity there  - not in my audio chain., if that makes any sense.

deadhead1000's avatar
deadhead1000
713 posts
 

Wow, you sound like me about 3 years ago. I had a highly rated Denon AVR which I switched from using as surround-sound, which sounded fine, to use as a two channel. It was awful. I had several very good two channel systems in the past, and the Denon was the pits. I saved up and went with a Luxman integrated. They have lots of choices. There are many other great integrated amps, but for me the Luxman had all the right features and sound. And I wanted great sound but didn’t want to get into total separates or tubes. Amazing difference, just lovely.

Many new integrated amps have built in DACs now, I would suggest to go with separates for a DAC, they really do sound very different.

Hope this helps. By the way, I've been in IT since 1993, just retired. So I know what you mean. 

 

soix
9,012 posts
 

My quandary is, what will I really gain here with a new amp?

That’ll get you halfway there, but as long as the Denon’s preamp section is in the signal chain it’ll be a significant bottleneck to much better sound.  Not sure why you’re against an integrated as they can be a great value vs. separates, and for $3k you could get a very nice integrated and just be done rather than then having to search out a preamp that synergizes well with an amp.  Just a thought, and best of luck. 

kota1
2,706 posts
 

Black Ice Audio has a product that is designed for rooms like yours that can't be treated in the conventional way. I would start by checking out their preamp:

 

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