Acoustic Signature turntables


I do not see a lot written about these turntables by end users. Can anyone share experiences or opinions on reliability, use, and design considerations?

Some of my observations or questions (keep in mind these are naive as I have never heard these models and I may be wrong about assumptions made).

1. Why the multiple motors? This is the one I struggle in understanding. Is the AVC (motor vibration reduction) that they provide somehow enhanced when working across more than one motor? How is this different than other motor vibration reduction methods such as the Rega method? Whether additional noise or reduced drive capability, who knows (?). How long to get up to speed?

2. Standard bearing vs inverted vs magnetic. I suppose there will never be consensus but noticed AS steadfastly implements standard bearings that focus on the materials used.

3. Platter dampening. Their method seems to work well. However, I noticed comments about earlier models being overly damped. The dampening increases up the product line.

4. Very heavy platters compared to some competition. Even the lower models have very heavy platters so they seem to think this is important.

5. Subplatter vs no subplatter. AS seems to have moved to subplatter design for models that can take multiple arms. Did they always think this method was superior?

6. Tonearms. Not much out there about the tonearms. Seems once again standard design but focus on materials…carbon fiber and bearings.

7. Back to motors. AS uses AC motors. Kuzma insists on DC. I guess I can try to read up on the differences and why manufacturers prefer different types. Any thoughts here? I am probably not be smart enough to understand the finer points about turntable motors (lol).

8.  Warranty.  AS seems to offer the longest warranty.  As with other warranties, what good is it if no design specs and performance tolerances are published?  Seems few turntable manufacturers publish relevant specs these days.  On one hand, I understand why in dealing with picky audiophiles and on the other hand, unfortunate.

Would appreciate additional thoughts. Thanks!

 

plinko

Plinko, You are making this much harder than it has to be, and it’s hard enough to begin with, to choose a new turntable from the myriad of choices that are available. What you care about is how each of the parts functions as a whole. In each case you are buying the sum total of the designer’s choices. So I would forget about your 8 questions and just listen and choose a turntable, not a motor or bearing or etc.

But, as regards multiple motors on a belt-drive, there is a rationale for two motors set 180 degrees apart, so as to even out the side stress on the bearing well and spindle. Three motors is already overkill, in my own opinion, and the noise of one or two motors ought to be lower than the sum total of noise from 3 motors. Just my opinion as an inveterate DD aficionado. (Yes, by the SP10R, your best idea.)

Dear @plinko  : I know you are not a " new comer " and 7 years you asked for a plinth for the SP10MK2 and you named here too. 

 

Any TT in that price range are a good TT and that's why audiophiles buy it and due to those sales those manufacturers exist. As any other analog audio item all different TTs have its own trade-offs and you are an audiophile with your unique MUSIC/audio priorities and the TT is only a link in the analog rig and everything the same could be that the more important items are the cartridge/tonearm combinations.

Today there are not bad TTs and many really " surprising " ones like the RP10 with its bargain price.

In AS no one cares about AC vs DC because by design the external control motor develops its own electrical " wave ", it's immune to electrical fluctuations. Between others I own AS.

Btw, no one has any true benefit listening a TT in a way different room/system.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Thank you all for your comments.  

@rsf507 , I finally saw two Acoustic Signature models today and listened to a system with one playing.  Quite interesting to see in person.  Beautiful, impressive tables.  Lots to like.

@lewm , thought you would recommend the Technics. ;-).  I don’t participate in the many threads here on turntable design but I have read most.  In a situation where I may finally take step forward and spend some money, I find myself increasingly interested in the different design philosophies and find it fascinating engineers follow such diametrically opposed principles.  

@rauliruegas ,  your Acoustic Signature table is still going strong, no?  yes, I have been at this a while and I am no “spring chicken”.  I unfortunately did not spend much time with the Technics.  I was too involved and happy with my Lenco at the time.  I am worried the AS would sound as if lacking in “drive”.  I am going to see a Kuzma Stabi R this weekend…much more torque but with these heavy platters does it really make a difference?

 

@plinko from your experience with the AS tables what impressed you and what were any concerns? Just curious.

@plinko , To start off with I am not a big Acoustic Signature fan. Having said that and to answer your questions;

Multiple motors are a totally unnecessary expense and complexity. A single motor with modern controls and a platter the right mass or angular momentum can not be beaten.

Bearings with magnetic or air thrust mechanisms are bound to last longer and be quieter. I prefer magnetic as air bearings have compressors that will fail long before any good mechanical bearing will. 

I prefer AC motors as they automatically torque correct to follow the established frequency. DC motors will not although DC motor control has come a long way.

There is no such thing as an overly damped platter while a ringing platter is a horror show. Many platters are adequately damped by their mats. I prefer single piece platters as I always lean towards simplicity. 

A platter can be too heavy depending on the motor. They are also slower to start up and slow down. Many platters are now grotesquely oversized. I think it is that male bigger and louder thing.

You missed two features that are important for the absolute best performance and that is an isolating suspension and vacuum clamping.