Cartridge Loading.....Part II

Dear @intactaudio  : " 

and 100Ω values are odd but that is secondary to demonstrating the effect. "

and something important is that PM is the only gentleman that showed/measured  in that regards,

The critic made by atmasphere is useless and for any one is easy to post that kind negative  comments. Could be better to prove with measures that PM is wrong, this is the way to do it but obviously till that happens PM it's  not wrong and in this regards a congratulations to him is the least we can do for.

Again, thank's for your PM information that trully and finally puts the " ligth " we all need it about.

R.

When you consider the proliferation of "current mode" phono inputs in vogue the 5Ω value isn't so strange.

Transimpedance phono sections have the cartridge driving the 'virtual ground' of an opamp circuit. That's quite a bit different from driving an actual short (0 Ohms)! For example, if the cartridge isn't present, the virtual ground does not exist. They really aren't an example in this context.

Try placing a 5 Ohm resistor across the output of any LOMC cartridge and see what happens 😁

I didn’t mention a dead short and was only referring to the two terminal impedance the coil of a cartridge sees. Any reference to ground be it real or virtual does not factor into the load seen by the coils. Surely there has to be an actual input impedance for a current amp and it has to be low otherwise the coils will not generate any current to amplify. I am not trying to get into an in depth analysis of how various transimpedance amplifiers work but address the general first order behavior of the system and believe that a cartridge operating into a ideal voltage amp behaves differently than the same cartridge into an ideal current amplifier primarily due to the fact that the loads are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Try placing a 5 Ohm resistor across the output of any LOMC cartridge and see what happens 😁

that depends on what load the input of the following stage gives.

If it is a voltage amplifier with 47kΩ, a 30Ω cartridge loaded by 5Ω it will be 17dB down.  When you replace that 30Ω cart with a 2Ω cart the output will only be down 3dB. If it is a current amplifier with a 1Ω input impedance a 5Ω parallel load will lower the current into the 1Ω input node by1.6dB with both the 2Ω and the 30Ω cartridge. The absolute currents will be different for the 2Ω and 30Ω carts but the relationship of how the 5Ω load affects a 1Ω input impedance stays the same.

dave

I didn’t mention a dead short and was only referring to the two terminal impedance the coil of a cartridge sees. Any reference to ground be it real or virtual does not factor into the load seen by the coils. Surely there has to be an actual input impedance for a current amp and it has to be low otherwise the coils will not generate any current to amplify.

Do you see how this above does not jive with this:

that depends on what load the input of the following stage gives.

If it is a voltage amplifier with 47kΩ, a 30Ω cartridge loaded by 5Ω it will be 17dB down.  When you replace that 30Ω cart with a 2Ω cart the output will only be down 3dB. If it is a current amplifier with a 1Ω input impedance a 5Ω parallel load will lower the current into the 1Ω input node by1.6dB with both the 2Ω and the 30Ω cartridge. The absolute currents will be different for the 2Ω and 30Ω carts but the relationship of how the 5Ω load affects a 1Ω input impedance stays the same.

Transimpedance phono sections have a dynamic load whereas a resistor is a static load. This is because the so-called 'virtual ground' (which will be 0 Ohms) occurs where the feedback resistor of an opamp meets the input resistance, which in this case will the cartridge itself.

At any rate, Moncreif threw off his numbers by using a 5 Ohm load, since that is not only not a real-world value that no-one would ever use, but is also one that would significantly decrease the output of any LOMC cartridge to the point that its output would be unusable (which is why its not real world...). Keep in mind that transimpedance phono sections didn't exist back then. As I mentioned previously, if he really wanted to make his point valid he needed to show the results using real world loads that are actually in use.

That laST POST IS PART OF THE WHOLE REGARDS STUPIDITY COMING FROM THE SAME PERSON, COMING FOR HIS FRUSTRATION .

@intactaudio  audio " falls " in that person game ( because intactaudio in good faith gentleman unknow that person game. ) that when he can't win then he follows been argumentative and goes " around and around "  with different issues than the one under discussion ( exactly like here. ) makind a way deviation from the main subject.

I followed his " game " when he already bbeated and I did it for many years till I learned.

That's why JC just does not  follows that stupid game and never suported him with the IMD issue discussed for years.

Please look to what stupid levels goes his stupidity:

""" At any rate, Moncreif threw off his numbers by using a 5 Ohm load, since that is not only not a........., if he really wanted to make his point valid he needed to show the results using real world loads that are actually in use. "

Certainly it's not PM who should do that  because PM shows at 100 ohms too but more important : that stupid man not only does not shows nothing/measures to prove his point but now he ask that the gentleman that measured and proved that the IMD is developed by the cartridge loading effect still makes more measures: GO FIGURE ! ! !

Yes, in our world exist any kind of stupidity we could think.

R.