What is it I'm failing to grasp?


I come across statements here and elsewhere by guys who say 1) their systems come very close to duplicating the experience of hearing live music and 2) that they can listen for hours and hours due to the "effortless" presentation.  

I don't understand how these two claims add up. In tandem, they are profoundly inconsistent with my experiences of listening to live music. 

If I think about concerts I consider the best I've witnessed (Oregon, Solas, Richard Thompson, SRV, Dave Holland Quintet, '77 G. Dead, David Murray, Paul Winter Consort), I would not have wanted any of those performances to have extended much beyond their actual duration.

It's like eating-- no matter how wonderfully prepared the food, I can only eat so much-- a point of satiation is reached and I find this to be true (for me) when it comes to music listening as well. Ditto for sex, looking at visual art, reading poetry or playing guitar. All of these activities require energy and while they may feel "effortless" in the moment, I eventually reach a point where I must withdraw from aesthetic simulation.

Furthermore, the live music I've heard is not always "smoothly" undemanding. I love Winifred Horan's classically influenced Celtic fiddling but the tone she gets is not uniformly sweet; the melodies do not always resemble lullabies. The violin can sound quite strident at times. Oregon can be very melodious but also,(at least in their younger days) quite chaotic and atonal. These are examples on the mellower side of my listening spectrum and I can't listen to them for more than a couple hours, either live or at home. 

Bottom line: I don't find listening to live music "effortless" so I don't understand how a system that renders this activity "effortless" can also be said to be accurate.   

What is it that I'm failing to grasp, here?  


 

stuartk

Too many variable here:  Live: listening to Pat Methany or Dave Brubeck sons at the Lobero in Santa Barbara is vastly different from listening to Santana in Las Vegas or at the Microsoft theater.  In the live setting the venue is almost more significant or as significant as the artist; as is the live sound engineer. 

I thought I'd enjoy Zak Brown band live but the Irvine Amphitheater had the worst sound dynamics ever; the band sure seemed to play their hearts out, but the sound production was awful. At one concert in Vegas the volume was so loud that I found it better to stand in the lobby or risk going deaf.  Makes me wonder if many Rock engineers are deaf.

At home; the recording quality and format takes precedence maybe more than the artist. Assuming your space and equipment are dialed in;  At home you control the volume and music selection; above 100dB you may not enjoy the music for long but you have the volume control music selection at your finger tips.

 

My listening experiences usually take 2 different tracks. Late at night, after work, 2 drinks and a loud "live" like piece of music pretty loud. Then there is the everyday just checking out some tunes experience. Each one has it's purpose and each experience has a different type of recording.

 Now when folks speak about live music,what kind of music?  Orchestral? Jazz? Rock? I guess what I’m trying to say is,if you are listening to un amplified music,isn’t that the true sound that one would be trying to reproduce? Because anything amplified,  now the guitar amp,mic choices,and PA system plays such a big part of what you would hear live.  Or am I totally missing the point?  Me personally,I can listen to all sorts of music for 12-14 hours a day with no listener fatigue what so ever. However ,I’ve listened to live music that makes my ears bleed after 10 minutes. 

My impression is that the monitors need to be turned up sufficiently to pressurize the rooms. 

My loudspeakers (Triangle) play well at low levels but I also use a sub that is turned up to match the low level. I have to turn it up a notch to fully pressurize my room. 

several thoughts i would add to (or reinforce) in this nice discussion

1 - agree with many who have said that live performances come in all shapes, sizes, volume levels - listening to a solo jazz piano without amplification at the village vanguard is a totally different musical experience than hearing beyonce at coachella - also, even at a village vanguard kenny barron solo piano gig, if you sit front row, or to the rear, it will sound very different, at the rear you hear the ’room’ alot more than the piano direct

2 - leaving aside amplified live concerts, even some unamplified instruments like drums trumpet or sax played in domestic environment would be ear piercingly loud - so a critical differentiator of the op’s two notions of sweet vs live is the volume setting of the music being played

3 - as relating to hifi systems, to me a really good system should succeed at both delivering smooth soothing beautiful music most of the time, as well as some (not all) of the excitement and visceral nature of a live performance - but often not simultaneously -- per the point above, the volume level is the primary variable, and choice of recording/its quality is the major second variable

4 - in my own experience, really good systems can play loudly with little strain, less evident harshness to the listener, as harmful distortion artifacts are managed to very low levels by good gear selection and optimized room acoustics - thus better systems can be listened to longer at higher volumes before fatigue is felt

5 - some systems, some speakers do better at low volumes, some others come to life and present the beauty, detail, impact and body of live music at a certain (higher) volume level - this occurs as various transducers exhibit different frequency and phase responses at different db/power levels

6 - finally, we as listeners have vastly different tastes, perceptions, hearing, references to what sounds smooth and sweet, and what sound ’live’