Blindfold Speaker testing


So if we made a  experiment where a  group of seasoned audiophiles had to choose  which speaker is best over all, 
6 brands all hidden behinda  curtain.
5 top dawgs in the xover box low sens design and 1 of the high sens PS design. How do you think the results will come out?
But we will not tell the group what speakers are behind the curtains, They will have no idea 1 of the speakers is Point Source. 
How do you think the, or lets say which 1 speaker do you think would come out on top?
No lets do this, Lets give the  group a  list of 5 speaker brands, Walsh, Wilson, Tannoy, and 2 others which are very popular, like Joseph with the Seas. 
and 1 more,
The mystery speaker is not listed, so they have no idea what speaker it is.
The ? speaker is the high sens Point Source.
Now Richard Gray hosts this *guess which speaker event* as he is a  master of these types of gimmicks and  has seasoned audiophiles fooled every single time.
Which speaker do you think will make top of the list in results??
I know.
The Mystery Speaker.
Then Richard pulls the curtain and reveals the winner.
 SURPRISEE
Got ya
The Hifi Guy


mozartfan
High sensitivity would most likely affect your perceptions if the demo or comparison was not precisely level calibrated.  Even 1/2 dB of additional [SPL] output is enough to COMPLETELY convince you one speaker sounds better than another.  You'd put money on it - you'd even buy the winner. 

This is a very old hi fi demo trick where a highly skilled sales person can control the outcome of any demo by subtle level differences.  Often the salesperson is unaware of these differences themselves, unless they have had extensive listening training/experience.  With most hi fi gear unable to repeat the same exact L/R level over and over because pots (volume controls) are mechanical wipers that can vary, the only way around it is precise stepped attenuators that are mostly 1/2dB or more.  It may not be enough precision as 1/4dB across a large portion of the audio spectrum is definitely audible. 

This is the exact problem of passive crossovers, they cannot account for sensitivity variance of production that is always more than 1/4 to 1/2 dB, its often more than 1 to 3 dB.  Cheap machine made drivers often have a "acceptable variance" of 6dB.  Passive crossovers cannot be controlled precisely enough to adjust for this variance.  You are literally swapping out parts in the passive crossover trying to match levels and youo wont get there perfectly, only within a dB or 2.  Your perception "this speaker is brighter than the one I heard in the store may actually be true because the drivers vary every so slightly in sensitivity (the more sensitive one sounding like it has better low end and high end).  The manufacturer themselves cannot adjust for this, they just try and get close.  

Precise level control in a shoot out is extremely difficult with the obvious varying sensitivity of multiple complete speaker systems.  Most preamps do not have enough resolution to adjust in 1/4 dB increments.  Most switchers are not good enough themselves to get precise (+/-1/4dB) level control.  Audio memory does not last long enough to manually switch cables over and have it be an accurate A/B.  So shootouts are useless without an inordinate amount of time being spent on precision level calibration. 

With room effects changing every single speaker in the room, the differences in position of each speaker are the smoking gun that position ALONE is responsible for many significant spectral changes that you perceive as "qualities".  Room influences of speaker position or YOUR position are responsible for many of the "I swear to God I hear more/less xyz" that we attribute to various system components.   

Brad
Look I really am only looking for comments from those members who have actually heard with their own ears a high sens new high tech speaker, All others, read, but please withold your snidey smirks.
Go listen to one, THEN come back and a make a comment

Tekton Moab here.
High sens? 98dB, check!    
New high tech? MTM array, check!
What do you want to know?

" Go listen to one, THEN come back and a make a comment"
just to make this clear, you never heard Voxativ, AER, PHL, Supravox, totl fostex. so you never had in your room any wideband speakers. wow.


’’I am speaking pure musical zero distortion mids,’’
but you never heard them

"there is no xover speaker ever that will stand the high sens testing."
to know for sure, one would have to listen to every passive, then every active speakers, then listen to all the best wideband design,
you cannot even say what youve owned cause all youve had for 20 years its those Troel design. time for you to go out and listen rather then make such claims.

"Trust me, I got 40 yrs listening."
I would be worried if someone trust you

"I know a speaker when I hear one"
lol, on youtube

Im almost sure you are either a troll or Kenjit.

" If we madea survey of top 1000 audiogon members with this Q
Are you interested in Highs ens, Full Range speakerS?
1) NO, not at all
2) Somewhat
3) Yes
900 in #1
50 in #2
50 in #3
Fast forward 10 yrs from now, 2031
1 300 nah's
2 300 yes very interested
3 400 I already own a pair
As the poet wrote so accurately
**The Times they are a changin..*
"

:)
NEWS BREAK
Say my tech geek who has actually built the amps for 2 of his clients here in New Orleans,  designed for Field Coils,
Quote: **a FC does not do anything more than what a good Magnet (Neo) can do* 
OK no issue there. 
Of course the 2 FC's he has heard are not Vox.
OK so lets skip the FC for right now. 
Of course I have heard various cheap chinese *full Range*, and all beat out the Seas in  most areas. 
Trust me I don't need to acutally hear a  high quality FR/High Sens,. 
based on my 40 yrs exp , I know already what a speaker will sound like just by looking at the design, materials used, specs. 
I have zero doubt the finest mids in any speaker design in the world are those of AER and Voxativ. 
I have ~~40~~ years of knowledge and experience. 
Back in 1975 a friend and I gave thumbs up to the Electro Voice Alpha 1's  vs Macintosh massive 20++ speaker design. 
I've heard countless box designs. 
None have impressed me in mids like these cheap chinese junk , have. 
That said, they do have fatigue.
Which AER and Vox has none of. 
I've read the testimonies on both drivers. 
All agree these 2  labs have the highest fidelity in any speaker they have ever heard in their entire audiophile experience. 
Why would they lie? 
You folks are just resisting change, failing to embrace the new technology. 
Why the rejection?
I started the longest, at least one of the longest threads here on Agon, back in 2001ish, andNow some 20 yrs later I have found  the answer I've been looking for.
Full Range/High Sens, is EXACTLY the answer to my searching.
Clues here and there past months have paid off.
Spent hours and hours of reseach. 
And its paid off, ]
Big time.

I'm glad you like your FR speakers. That is what I used (Lowther) for 20 plus years in my system & enjoyed them very much. I moved on from them though. First to Tekton, then Wilson, & now B&W. That stated, speakers are just part of the system & I have no doubt you could make FR speakers sound better than "conventional speakers" IF you're using a low powered tube amplifier during your "blindfold test" for all the speakers being tested. That is after all what makes a FR speaker shine. If however you used a quality high end 300 WPC SS amplifier (or mono blocks) in your test, the Tekton, Wilson, or high end B&W speakers would excel. This doesn't mean your FR speakers are losers (they are not), just that the system was wrong for them.