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Is the appeal to euphonic distortion learned?

Hi everyone,

I have been thinking a little bit about the idea of euphonic distortion. The idea that we can make an amplifier or preamplifier sound better by not being so absolutely true to the input. The common story is that by adding 2nd order harmonics the music sounds more pleasant to more people. Certainly Pass has written a great deal, and with more nuance and detail about this and makes no bones about his desire to make a good sounding, rather than well measuring product.

Lets keep this simple description of euphonic distortion for the sake of argument, or we’ll devolve into a definition game.

I’m wondering whether it is possible that this is in large part learned? For instance, if I grew up with non-euphonic amps and then was exposed to an amp with high amounts of 2nd order distortion would I like it? Is the appeal here one which you have to have learned to like? Like black coffee through a French press?

And this discussion is of course in line with my thoughts about the ear/brain learning process. That there are no absolute’s in music reproduction because we keep re-training our ears. We keep adjusting what we listen to and ultimately at some point have to decide whether the discrimination between gear makes us happier or not. (Go ahead writers, steal this topic and don't mention me again, I know who you are).
erik_squires
hilde45's avatar
hilde45
6,005 posts
 
The question of the OP was both scientific and biographical. The best scientific answer to “is euphonic sound enjoyed because it’s learned?” — IMO came from atmasphere. Other more autobiographical answers to the question were really interesting...for myself, I cannot tell if my taste in tubes is learned or not, but I certainly discovered it much later in life. Just wasn’t in most of the audio shops where I was looking, before, in the 80s and 90s. 
A few of the comments are are downright anti-curiosity. I’m amazed, still, that people choose to put in print such troglodytic ejaculations. Go yell at the weather, FFS.
As far as the overextended object lessons in “embedding”, well, all I can say is that I’ve been doing nothing but fine tuning my room for the past 5 months and every time I get it to a good place, I switch from SS to tubes and it’s like a glorious rainbow appears over an already beautiful vista. So, no, the gear is not way down on the list for me. It’s very integral to what I’m seeking. 
daledeee1's avatar
daledeee1
676 posts
 
Is audio equipment voiced for the public or what the designer thinks sounds the best?  None of it is perfect.  We have to get used to what we hear.  Initial listening can be "oh my"  to wincing.  Later on, it can still be bad or good.
bruce19
359 posts
 
@erik_squires  You got me thinking and it might be learned but not from equipment. My hypothesis is that certain harmonics are more pleasing to the ear but they may be conditioned by the musical system we are accustomed to. My reading of Nelson Pass's thinking is that he feels even order harmonics (the octave) have this inherent quality. I like that but the problem is that the third order harmonic is a perfect fifth in music and that certainly is pleasing to western ears. (Apologies to Mr. Pass if I interpret him incorrectly). Also chords are basically made up of thirds. So lets I change that to lower order harmonics are pleasing to western ears.  I think that works and invite correction from those more versed in this than I.
So if lower order harmonics dominate from acoustic instruments using western tunings then it would follow that equipment that reproduces music would also please if the main distortion it introduces is consists of lower order harmonics.

Lets see if this withstands the scrutiny of the learned members of our forum:-)
Bruce
dave_b's avatar
dave_b
3,159 posts
 
Ejaculations...good call 📞. So much nonsense spewed out over such a simple equation.  If you appreciate live sound, acoustic instruments or the human voice, everyone can tell when something sounds authentic.  Listen and decide for yourself and stop pretending to be able to quantify the experience!
cleeds
6,581 posts
 
dave_b
... So much nonsense spewed out over such a simple equation ... Listen and decide for yourself and stop pretending to be able to quantify the experience!
It really doesn’t matter what other people do. But what’s odd is that the measurementalists here seem to insist that we are somehow obligated to them to provide things such as results of our own blind tests. Time and again, we read posts such as "the onus is on you to ..." when no such obligation exists. Those who resist such demands have - over just the last few days - been told their opinions are "worse than useless" and that they are stupid, or deluded, or have ulterior motives.

For those who seek absolute, documented, verifiable scientific data, I can only note: This a hobbyist’s group, not a scientific forum. Please take those demands elsewhere.

I’ve also noticed that the measurementalists don’t seem to offer the results of their own blind testing. Why is that?
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