Help! Spakers damaged during shipping?Paid insurance (with proof)being told not Insured?


LONGGGG story, here is short verison. (this has bene going on for the last 7-8 months!!!

I sold a pair of B&W speakers on audiogon.com as well as purchasing insurance and shipping label through audigon.com
When speakers arrive to buyer he notifies me immedietly with pictures that they are broken and boxes are all busted up like they had been dropped from a formitable height and landed on their head.
I file claim with audiogon (whom i purchased the insurance through). Claim is denied due to package "not being Insured'. How can it not be insured if I paid for the insurance at checkout when I purchased Shipping label

To clarify, the claim is not getting denied for handling the situation wrong ( i.e.-  throwing away the damaged item or something) nit actually is NOT EVEN GETTING THAt far. MY receipt says that I paid for insurance and show the amount I paid but' on their end' they are showing something different (that this was not insured).

How to Resolve? Next step of Action?
 





a_mulder
Original shipping containers designed for shipping, packaging obtained from the original manufacturer, is the required minimum - for insurance on packages to be in effect.


Probably made 7 or 8 claims on insurance when shipping in the last 20+ years and never once was the claim rejected because it was not the original manufacturer packaging. I did have to show proof of adequate packaging an in no case was there internal damage but no external damage. 



This is called ’FOB’ Shipping (from our base), 


FOB = Free on Board.  It must also include technically FOB origin or destination to indicate where the transfer point is in responsibility. Also technically, FOB Origin (or shipping point) responsibility does not transfer till it leaves the seller dock, but there can be confusion and it comes down to contractual terms.

IF the shipper is the seller, then it is the responsibility of the seller, until it is dropped off and signed for, by the buyer or final destination point. Until then, all claims, negotiations and the like - sit solely on the seller’s shoulders.


This is where shipping insurance contracts get you on the weasel word. If the receiver signs for it, that is taken as acceptance.  They must, at the time of arrival, indicate the damage.  I have written into our sales contract, and bolded it, that if the customer signs for a product and does not indicate exterior damage at the time of arrival, they are obsolving us of responsibility.  AS A SELLER YOU MUST COMMUNICATE THIS TO YOUR END CUSTOMER!

So, in effect, PayPal and taking money back on a buyer’s word...is in fact illegal and against the given contract. Where it does not matter if the packaging was not adequate, as that is not part of the legal aspects of the money and who controls the money in the fulfillment of the contract. 


If you are not a lawyer, then it is best NOT to provide this level of what is essentially legal advice and claim it as absolute fact.  IF you use Paypal, and this must be agreed by both parties, you are often engaging in a separate and what is potentially superseding contract.  I have not reviewed all the Paypal details of late, but some of them used to initiate what is in effect an escrow and would make Paypal the arbitrator.  Please don't take my (or Teo's) word for it. Do you own research.



Man, Teo makes me never want to ship an item again, lol.   Best to sell locally and in person if possible (in the police station parking lot?  And don’t give the buyer any personal info i.e. phone number?).  
I learned a lot about shipping from experiences I had last summer.  Im actually surprised that most of my transactions have gone smoothly.
I learned the hard way that Fed Ex doesn’t honor insurance claims for audio gear. It doesn’t matter how much proof you furnish or how many of their hoops you jump through. I would be surprised if UPS is not the same. 
Insurance companies due one thing well,deny damage claims. Thats what they do, deny deny hoping you go away.I actually had a keyboard lost in shipment and UPS denied the insurance claim ...the only way I've found to get anywhere is to get the states attorney general involved, typically when they hear mention of them things start moving in the right direction.