If I just use a DAC, do I need a Pre-amp?

Pre-amp is the heart of your Audio System every device is connected it to except the Speaker.

the Atma-Sphere MP-1 or MP-3 will serve you well for years to come without regrets. 

davidgwillett OP

The old saying "best preamp in the world" "sound like a piece of wire".
Guess what that’s what going direct is, and then passive and last an active preamp.

And if you don’t like direct and your not "bit striping", then you don’t like the sound of your source, change it, don’t add another expensive problem into the mix.
As Ivor Tifenbrun (Linn LP12) said, it all starts with the source, get that right and your almost home.

Cheers George

John Atkinson's review of the Pass XP-30 preamp is a pretty interesting read relative to the question of to use a preamp or not; e.g. https://www.stereophile.com/content/pass-laboratories-xp-30-line-preamplifier

He starts by referencing the Ayre KX-R preamp with

So much for the effect of expectations on perception: the KX-R sounded better than no preamp at all! As Wes Phillips described in his review, music sounded especially alive through the KX-R, whereas with the Transporter driving the amplifiers directly, it was all a touch less involving; acoustic objects within the soundstage were all a tad less fleshed out.

But it could be argued that my finding should not have surprised me. Ever since reviewing Audio Research's groundbreaking SP-10 preamplifier in July 1984, I have suspected that the preamplifier is the heart of a system, that it colors and adds its own character to every signal that passes through it. What I hadn't anticipated was that this character might not be a mere absence of negatives, but could also be a positive attribute.

and concludes with

The XP-30 has rekindled for me the concept that the beating heart of an audio system is the preamplifier.

@phantom_av " Pre-amp is the heart of your Audio System every device is connected it to except the Speaker."

For me "every device" is one device. 
For this thread it is a DAP (no stream) 256 and 512 DSD player on the device to the Amp or DAP->pre->Amp.  
-I have an analog volume 
-I have filters (EQ)

I will wait for my free test.  If someone offers a money back test, I may test, but I expect they will get their device back. 
I'm a bit more confident now than in the OP as I had not tested then.  Now having hooked it up to some guys amps that insisted I need a pre-amp and now they don't.  He said come back in a month and try.

My setup/s are very simple.  They are also in different places.  It may be wrong, but I have a source/amp/speaker setup. 

I switch setups, not components.  So far, there are no pre-amps.

The source determines the DAC and amp and speakers.  
Examples...
(this OP) Fiio M15 player local data ->Fisher SA-100->Klipsh Heresy

Then other stuff:
Windows 10 Audiovana Player ASIO driver to Chord Qutest -> 300B SET -> Chartwell

As above to HH Scott -> Watkins Gen 4

Same DAP-> http://www.erhard-audio.com/Elvis.html ->Maggies
(another state)

The only time I might switch source on the same amp is on the Scott for a TT.  I have about 8 records.  Everything else the source is matched to the amp and the amp to the speakers.  

And JA concludes with

The XP-30 has rekindled for me the concept that the beating heart of an audio system is the preamplifier.

Yes Nelson Pass is in business to make money, even from his preamps, if people want them.


Yet Nelson Pass also quotes this:

Nelson Pass,

“We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.

Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.

Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.

What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.

And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp.”

Cheers George