Cartridge loading


Presently I am using a ZU/Denon DL103 mc cartridge with ZU Audio's highest tolerances.  I had this cartridge mounted on my VPI Prime and after going through all the various loading combinations, I settled on 200 ohms.  I was always satisfied with my choice of setting.  I no longer have the Prime and now use the Technics SL1200G turntable.  After having the same cartridge mounted and aligned by the dealer, I inserted it into my system and enjoyed the sound immensely, never touching the 200 ohm setting.

Yesterday I was listening to vinyl most of the day and for some reason I found the sound to be better than ever, mostly in the treble area.  The highs had shimmer when needed and I had played the same records many times before on the Prime and they never sounded as good as they did yesterday.  Just for the heck of it, I checked the cartridge loading and found it was now set at 1000 ohms.  As I said, when I put the Technics into the system, I never bothered changing the loading which was at 200 ohms as it was the same cartridge, just a different turntable.

I believe I know what happened, when I last used the tone controls on my McIntosh preamp, (you have to shuffle through a menu) I must have inadvertently put the cartridge loading at 1000 ohms.  It truly sounds fantastic, better than I ever thought possible.  The Bass is still very deep and taut, midrange is the same but the treble, oh my, so much better.  Now the million dollar question is why should it now sound better at 1000 ohms, when it sounded great before at 200 ohms?  Can the tonearm on the Technics have an effect on cartridge loading?  I always thought it was all dependent on the preamp, amp and speakers.  What am I missing here?  I am very curious to know.  The specs for my cartridge say greater than 50 ohms for loading.

Thanks
128x128stereo5
I don't agree. Coil moving in a magnetic field can generate only one thing - voltage. This is the lesson of papa Faraday :)
OK  you win :-)  

Ralph... If I can ask you a question which might clear up a lot of things here....

IOW when the cartridge is loaded (damped) its ability to trace high frequencies is reduced because the cantilever will be stiffer.

when you say "ability to trace" are you referring to the output generated by the cartridge or the physical ability for the stylus to remain in contact with the groove wall?

dave
bydlo and larry, I wouldn't argue with what you both say, but I would point out that the capacity of a LOMC to make signal current into a very low resistance load (meaning a load that is equal to or much lower than its internal impedance) does not usually parallel its capacity to make voltage into a "high" resistance load (meaning any load that is about 10X the coil resistance). (I am not getting into the argument between Raul and Atma-sphere.)  For example, my MC2000 is rated for 0.05mV at the standard stylus velocity.  But its internal resistance is only 2 ohms. Thus it can generate 25uA of current into no load or probably anything much lower than 2 ohms.  For comparison, my Audio Technica ART7 has twice the voltage output of  the MC2000 (0.12mV) but also has an internal impedance of 12 ohms at 1kHz.  Thus the ART7 is less efficient at generating current (10uA), when forced to do so, than the MC2000.  Viewed this way, the MC2000 more than holds its own for current output, among very LOMC cartridges. So, I think the point of a "current-driven" phono stage is that it might be advantageous compared to stages that are voltage driven, only for certain very LOMC cartridges.  It certainly has been demonstrated in my system with the device made by Intact Audio. No one views the idea of current-drive for phono as a panacea for all LOMC cartridges, but the flexibility is there.
Dear @cleeds  : "  I think Ralph has been very patient with you...""

Patience?, I have years wating for his numbers about and he only showed and shows : empty words even that Palmer proved that that " limit trace.." is false and he posted that way: false.

In the other side I was not who posted the " limit trace..." issue but he was and that's why I asked about.

Now and in good shape: which the word to name some one that spreads for years and continue spreading false information?

Btw, I think he choose the wrong words: " limit trace... " to explain his way of thinking. 
I don't care about any more because we are talking of false information.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
My personal take on it is that the coil generates what you tell it to. Leave it open it generates voltage, Load it down it generates current.
@intactaudio 

To be clear, a current amplifier does not significantly load the cartridge. The 'zero ohms' thing that you see talked about in reference to them refers to the virtual ground with which the cartridge plays a part. Virtual ground being nearly zero ohms is **in no way** similar to actual ground!! So the cartridge does not behave as it its driving a short. It behaves as if it is driving a fairly high impedance. This may sound counterintuitive, but a virtual ground is a thing that has to do with how OpAmps work and if it was really the same thing as zero ohms, the OpAmp wouldn't work. Another way of putting this is that 'virtual ground' is a charged term in that it does not mean 'ground' at all. The word 'virtual' means something different than 'actual' :)
when you say "ability to trace" are you referring to the output generated by the cartridge or the physical ability for the stylus to remain in contact with the groove wall?
I am referring to the simple fact that a stiffer cantilever will be unable to trace higher frequencies- at some point, it won't be able to follow the groove wall impressed with higher frequencies. This point may be outside of the audio band, but the way some people try to use loading resistors as a tone control, with some cartridges I suspect it will be inside the audio band too. Regardless, by loading the cartridge in a significant manner, causing the cantilever to be less supple is unavoidable.


The reason I do not think cartridge designers design for any load other than 47K is twofold: first, 47K is the industry input impedance standard for phono preamps. Second, I had a conversation with Jonathan Carr (well known of Lyra fame) on this very topic and it was he who mentioned to me that loading at 100 ohms or the like would have the effect of reducing high frequency performance (this conversation occurred in my room at the 2014 Munich show; we had both been active on a thread on cartridge loading that can be found on the 'What's Best' audio forum). This issue was at the heart of the conversation- it was not about anything else. Now as a phono preamp designer, having this conversation with a top cartridge designer, and understanding basic physics of how transducers work, this confirmed my own work in the area. He and I are on the same page with anything to do with cartridge loading, not just the cantilever stiffness issue.

If you know how electro-mechanical transducers work, you can't come to any other conclusion. To make things easier to work with, we humans often simplify a picture so we can deal with basic concepts. Making the cartridge output invariant as if it somehow does not obey Ohm's Law and basic generator theory (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generator_(circuit_theory)) is one of those ways of simplifying a concept.  But if you understand that a cartridge is a generator, maybe this idea is easier to understand in that a conventional generator which is spun to make electricity, the generator shaft becomes progressively harder to spin the more the generator is loaded. A cartridge **has** to have a similar behavior!




rauliruegas
Dear @cleeds : " I think Ralph has been very patient with you...""

Patience?, I have years wating for his numbers about and he only showed and shows : empty words
We are off-topic. Briefly, no matter how impatient or unhappy you are, your accusations against Ralph - in particular, that he has lied in the forum - are unwarranted. The two of you seem to disagree, which is not unusual here. Yet you continue to prosecute your case with insult.

As I mentioned before, I think some of the problem here may be a language barrier. Please consider that.