Is grounding with RCA is safe?

In most components the circuit ground is directly connected to the chassis.

I believe that is not true. And certainly, IMO, a **good** design will not connect circuit ground and chassis directly together, as it invites ground loop issues.

As Erik indicated, many designs have a resistor connected between circuit ground and chassis, and many others go even further in isolating them from each other. I know, for example, that circuit ground and chassis are not connected together in most or all Audio Research, Ayre, and Atma-Sphere designs, among others.

Regards,
-- Al

What you are doing is perfectly safe. The outside is ground anyway. Its real easy, with tube gear anyway, to look inside and see the one wire coming from the center of each RCA and going straight to the input selector. Only one wire. Don't take my word for it. Look and see. One wire. That's the pin, that's the signal, that's positive. That's why its insulated, and routed the way it is, away from noisy bits like transformers. That's why they lay them out the way they do.

Notice the outside of each RCA. They are not wired individually. They do not go to the input selector. On many amps they connect to a bus bar. Follow that wire, which notice is not insulated, it will at some point complete the circuit by being connected to ground. They may all come together at one point, I don't know, have only looked into and modded a few so there may be some exceptions. 

When there are you can be sure its for sound quality not safety. Mainly the problem is the way electricity works, running a signal through a wire generates a magnetic field around the wire proportional to the signal. While at the same time every magnetic field crossing a wire induces a voltage in that wire proportional to the field. This is how electricity is generated, be it in a Koetsu cartridge or Hoover Dam, and this is how transformers work too. And antennas. Same deal.

So if you're hearing an improvement that kind of makes sense. What you're doing is providing a more direct route to ground taking that one small part of the problem out of the amp. A little less is a little less and if you hear it you hear it. 

Count yourself lucky. The ground loop guys are right. Only thing they're missing is its a crap shoot. One guy does everything right, winds up with hum and hunting down a ground loop anyway. Another guy (that would be you) deliberately wires extra grounds which one would think ought to hum like crazy, and instead it actually sounds better. Go figure.

I use these from Gutwire: http://gutwire.com/?page_id=1334

They connect via your RCA, XLR, spade or Pin safely to an outlet. I've had mine for over a year and no problems whatsoever.

All the best,
Nonoise

The following thread will be of interest:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-new-ground-benefits-of-introducing-the-synergistic-research-active

Some excerpts:

Atmasphere 6-27-2017
I did a survey of a number of grounding systems by interviewing the owners and having them do a few tests (as best as I can make out, these were similar to the SR, but none of them were SR units).

What I found was that in audio systems where a grounding system made an improvement, universally there were also bugs in the way that the associated audio equipment was grounded, which is why the grounding boxes were helping.

Just my opinion of course, but if the manufacturers of the various products (amps, preamps and the like) in those audio systems were to fix the bugs in their products, the result would be even better and at worst just as good as the (IMO rather expensive) grounding system add-ons.

My conclusion was that if a grounding box was helping, that was an indication that the associated equipment had design flaws in their grounding implementation.

Atmasphere 6-28-2017
All it takes is one component to short out the grounding scheme on the other equipment.

How it works is, the chassis of the equipment should be grounded to the ground pin of the AC cord which in turn is grounded by the house wiring. There is no current on this connection....

... The circuit ground of the amplifier, preamp or whatever is **not** connected to the chassis in a proper setup but is instead ’floated’ at ground potential by a simple circuit which might simply be a resistor or resistor/diode arrangement. In this way ground loops between equipment are prevented and the chassis is allowed to act as a shield while not also acting as a ground return.

If only one piece in the system has the circuit and chassis be the same thing, then its connection to the rest of the system will compromise the grounding of the rest of the system. Now you have to do something about it and that is what these grounding block thingys do- at a tremendous price though, as a better solution would be to simply have the offending piece repaired by the manufacturer.

Almarg 6-28-2017
Ralph, thanks. That all makes sense from a technical standpoint, as far as I am concerned. Question: Could similar adverse effects occur to an audible degree if rather than circuit ground and chassis ground/AC safety ground being connected directly together in one or more of the components in a system, they are instead connected together through a resistor whose value is simply too low? For example, I’ve seen in some ARC designs that resistors as low as 10 ohms are used for that purpose.

Atmasphere 6-28-2017
Hello Al,

The resistor is there to prevent ground currents and often 10 ohms is enough to do the job, just as you see in the old Dynaco gear.

I like a little more myself, and its not a bad idea to place some high current diodes in opposite directions in parallel with the resistor. In this way if a component is damaged and places the AC line on the chassis, a fuse will blow rather than just cooking the resistor.

I’ve not played with the resistor value to see what effect it has, but it stands to reason that a value too low mitigates its use and not in a good way :)

Atmasphere 7-5-2017
If you have a DVM there is a simple measurement that will tell you if the amp/preamp/whatever is properly grounded.

With the unit unplugged and out of the system, the DVM set to the Ohms scale:

The center pin of the IEC connection (or ground pin of the AC cord) should measure a short to the chassis; IOW about 0.5 ohms or less.

If the ground of the audio input connection measures the same then you have a problem. If it seems to measure significantly higher than things are good.

If you have no connection between the chassis and the ground pin of the AC cord then the equipment can be considered dangerous and will not meet UL standards nor EU Directives (CE mark).

And note especially the second sentence quoted from the following post!

Folkfreak 10-29-2017
The [Synergistic Research] active ground block has active components inside as well as a ground connection.

... even passive ground solutions give results, consider for example the Entreq units which have no connection to the AC safety ground at all but still produce the same type of results.

ted_d (Ted Denney of Synergistic Research) 5-1-2019
The Active Ground Block SE has an Active Electromagnetic Cell similar to what is found in our PowerCell line conditioners, the non SE version does not. This (the Active EM Cell) filters high frequency noise out of ground which is significant....

... NEVER EVER plug the Active Ground Bock into anything but the wall. Do NOT plug it into a line conditioner or anything but a wall outlet otherwise you will introduce impedance and crosstalk contamination and this seriously diminishes sound quality.

Regards,
-- Al

Hello OP,

Please unplug that. Further reading will give reasons why, but unnecessary.

I would be hesitant to sound a whistle on an otherwise lively discussion, but we have essentially anonymous posters making reckless assertions having nothing to do with fact. Moreover several are only their ‘observations’, based loosely upon their personal incomplete understanding. I’m not getting into a flame war with other posters by repeating inane statements and then responding. But please unplug your contraption. No EE or state license-holder is going to suggest leaving it as a temporary solution. It’s creating more of a hazard than you think regardless of the sound. I will explain exactly what is wrong with your approach rather than point you to some roundabout explanation not based in safety, science or fact. Of course, no one can exactly diagnose your audio issue remotely. Not doing that. Don’t want you killed or anyone running around your sound room.

In terms of significance these issues are in no particular order. First, at the core, even if that idea of a ground were acceptable, you are using temporary and under-gauged wires. The RCA connectors probably a thinner gauge wire than what a normal ground ‘plug’ wire would be. The-wall ground wire is around 14 gauge (green wire). For an actual ‘ground’ you wouldn’t want moveable, unplugable pieces (RCA M/F) that could be confused with the same cables serving as interconnects. If it’s only you living with the sound room and you can always remember not to unplug ‘those’ wires, it’s still not enough. You have male to female connectors that might have oxidation or be different metals…you should have just wire, or at least soldered or crimped connectors…the ground or “a” ground is safety. In a car you don’t have to remember to turn an airbag on or off. Secondly, whatever was “solved” with approach wasn’t solved but rather relocated. You might have an offending appliance on a shared same circuit having nothing to do with your audio equipment. Additionally to that, there are EM fields everywhere on current carrying devices and a slight move of a cable or wire could have created an issue. Guitar amps can hum based upon a guitar’s proximity to the amp due to the type of pickup used. It’s not the amps fault. Even if it’s a $3,000 amp, depending on the setup it can hum and will. Single-coil pickups.

Thirdly, a “ground” is not the same as a neutral wire (or where the current goes ‘out’ from your devices). The ground is a safety belt mostly for the equipment. It can help save humans though. Conversely, GFCI’s are SOLELY meant to save humans from accidental exposure and some fire hazards but even those are not 100% and must be periodically tested. “Ground” or “Earth” in electronics is not the same as a “green ground wire” or ground hole in an electrical outlet. “Ground” in electronics is a limitless sink which would absorb any voltage so that a predictable “potential” or voltage can be provided within a design. DC, best display by household batteries do not have “ground”. They have “+” and “-“. They also don’t kill. Household batteries are nearly always limited to under 50V because larger exposures can be lethal. In your amp, you have high voltage. AC is more lethal than DC at high voltages but you wouldn’t want to touch 300V of either. Designers of electronics don’t really care or specify whether the “earth” means flow to neutral or ground. It’s nearly always neutral bolstered by a ground, but that’s that what they focus on. Someone will say, “Yeah, my service panel showed me different. I saw that all the white ‘neutral’ conductors at the bar shared a connection to the ‘ground’ bonded to my cold water pipes and a giant copper rod that cost $300 to have an electrician install before he’d put in a 200a panel for another $2,000.” That is true, but not the only story. Those “ground” connections are a last resort of protection in case there is voltage within your house and the neutral conductor to the utility is disconnected. Undischarged capacitors are an example of that. That is fact and science. They are required or rather ‘supposed’ to drain within a certain time limit but there can be older equipment or who knows what people do to hotrod their systems.

I would try to figure out what changed system-wise to isolate a component and eliminate the problem that way or you have a piece of equipment with a problem (or a wiring problem, or competing load on the same circuit…any recent wiring work?).

I remember a comment mentioning a “single” wire flowing into a selector and logically, the “ground” then must be the equipment case. There are some minimalist systems and DIY pieces that do that. You can’t have voltage without a potential between two points. HOWEVER, the voltage running through the selector to the case is 5V at most if there are small lights or its in mV if just signal. Most electronics have a relay or other mechanism to soften the transition. However, if you had the ability to interrupt the voltage from tubes to the speakers without a temporary sink, the circuit board will melt, capacitors explode because with tubes that electricity can’t be in limbo. Say if you held it in between states and there was no relay or resistor. And, it’s not the high lethal voltage in the amplification stage NEVER running through tone controls or volume or gain controls. The high voltages in any system don’t go first to the chassis and then wherever else, doesn’t matter. They ALWAYS by design return to the neutral and as a safety at some point there is a ground wire connected to the chassis, but also the ground on a 3 wire connection. There are rather cheap test device that will confirm if you still have a “good ground” at your outlet.  Tubes, solid state or not even an amp.  Same issue.  You are putting 115V or 120V in and expecting a result...which is not expected to be 120V or higher into your body or a burst of flames.

To go on, but probably the most important notion is that a ‘ground’ is the last resort. And it’s really meant to save equipment. Electricity will run through the path of least resistance. If a short or surge occurs that completely melts your RCA “ground”, it will try to travel through the next thing….a human body, a pet…anything creating a new path. You’ve now created a new path, maybe more preferable, that if water gets in, a piece of wire, a paper clip, a short from an internal component fail or solder fail could be unpredictable. Those interconnect areas are supposed to be very small voltages and completely unattractive to stray voltage. Accidentally leaving a system on and something overheats? I would also not purchase a “box” device to do something your system already did but then something failed or was repositioned to create an actual or apparent issue. Your ingenuity is great but in dealing with any voltages over 50V its best to do in a controlled environment or get solid PAID advice.