Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?


Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
@phoenixengr

From what I've seen, most of the DD tables use a DC motor with servo control (feedback) to maintain proper speed. This of course, comes with its own set of problems.

Would you kindly lay out what the main problems are?
lewm
I THINK that some of us are saying this: Absolute accurate speed is not the issue.


I learned how important speed stability was, over the actual speed when I was 10 years old. Got my first - to me - portable stereo - Hitachi am/fm with cassette and microphone.

The next few days I filled one tape - recording music from FM.
When the tape was full, I played only my tape of music for the next week. I remember to this day thinking what freedom I had to play my own songs. Of course I had taped songs that triggered a "happy mood" in me.
Life was good.     

************************************

After one week, I switched to, and listened to FM radio again. Something was wrong. I noticed that the songs I had recorded now coming at me through FM, did not sound as good as my taped version. They sounded slow and lethargic. I was confused. My tape version of the songs had a better tempo, more energy. More life.

Sometime later ....I figured out what had happened.

***********************************

The tape motor in my stereo was running fast. Oh... it was a stable and consistent enough speed, so it sounded ok. It was just running a little fast.
I learned at 10 years of age that "Speed Stability" is what is important.

Sometimes I like to speed up my turntable, up a bit, you know ....go audiophile crazy.... just to hear older female voices ...........sound younger.

Fountain of Youth ?  Try that with your digital. 

A key to reducing the effects of stylus drag is reducing turntable bearing friction. Ultimately,  the effects of drag all go back to the motor.  If it has less work to do overcoming bearing  friction so much the better.
Chris
You took the words from my fingers sir!

I routinely run my TT,s and my R2R ever so slightly fast deliberately just for that sense of extra attack, drive and dynamics.
Correct?
No but it's my system and ears and stability is key for me NOT absolute speed being locked at 33.333333 recurring.
Heck if it was good enough for Fleetwood Mac it works for me.
Anvil, any added friction is going to slow any table down a bit unless it has a compensatory mechanism. Most tables create an equilibrium situation which in table like the big Kuzma is probably strong enough to overcome stylus drag. In some tables like the older SOTAs you can adjust the equilibrium with the stylus down but the table itself is not compensating. This is not the case with the new ones. The Monaco is fascinating because it's resolution is so high but it is direct drive and unlike mikelavigna I do not like big magnetic things under my cartridge.

mike, there is such a thing as "carrying it to far." Why don you just stick your turntable in an isolation camber so airborne vibration doesn't get to it? I bet if you sit on one of those tables your hearing will improve:)

Ralph, What are you doing with a lathe? Atma-Sphere going to start making records? 

Mike