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Stylus-Drag..Fact or Fiction?

Most audiophiles can't seem to believe that a tiny stylus tracking the record groove on a heavy platter could possibly 'slow-down' the rotating speed of a turntable.
I must admit that proving this 'visually' or scientifically has been somewhat difficult until Sutherland brought out the Timeline.
The Timeline sits over the spindle of the rotating disc and flashes a laser signal at precisely the correct timing for either 33.33rpm or 45rpm.
By projecting these 'flashes' onto a nearby wall (with a marker attached)....one can visualise in real-time, whether the platter is 'speed-perfect' (hitting the mark at every revolution), losing speed (moving to the left of the mark) or gaining speed (moving to the right of the mark).

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE 
Watch here how the laser hits the mark each revolution until the stylus hits the groove and it instantly starts losing speed (moving to the left).
You can track its movement once it leaves the wall by seeing it on the Copperhead Tonearm.
Watch how it then speeds up when the tonearms are removed one by one....and then again, loses speed as the arms are dropped.

RAVEN BELT-DRIVE TT vs TIMELINE
Watch here how the laser is 'spot-on' each revolution with a single stylus in the groove and then loses speed as each additional stylus is added.
Then observe how....with NO styli in the groove.....the speed increases with each revolution (laser moves to the right) until it 'hits' the mark and then continues moving to the right until it has passed the mark.

Here is the 35 year-old Direct Drive Victor TT-81 turntable (with Bi-Directional Servo Control) undergoing the same examination:-
VICTOR TT-81 DD TT vs TIMELINE 
128x128halcro
anvil_turntables's avatar
anvil_turntables
53 posts
 
A key to reducing the effects of stylus drag is reducing turntable bearing friction. Ultimately,  the effects of drag all go back to the motor.  If it has less work to do overcoming bearing  friction so much the better.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Chris
You took the words from my fingers sir!

I routinely run my TT,s and my R2R ever so slightly fast deliberately just for that sense of extra attack, drive and dynamics.
Correct?
No but it's my system and ears and stability is key for me NOT absolute speed being locked at 33.333333 recurring.
Heck if it was good enough for Fleetwood Mac it works for me.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,224 posts
 
Anvil, any added friction is going to slow any table down a bit unless it has a compensatory mechanism. Most tables create an equilibrium situation which in table like the big Kuzma is probably strong enough to overcome stylus drag. In some tables like the older SOTAs you can adjust the equilibrium with the stylus down but the table itself is not compensating. This is not the case with the new ones. The Monaco is fascinating because it's resolution is so high but it is direct drive and unlike mikelavigna I do not like big magnetic things under my cartridge.

mike, there is such a thing as "carrying it to far." Why don you just stick your turntable in an isolation camber so airborne vibration doesn't get to it? I bet if you sit on one of those tables your hearing will improve:)

Ralph, What are you doing with a lathe? Atma-Sphere going to start making records? 

Mike
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,499 posts
 
IIRC, Ralph has made a number of records.
mikelavigne
2,149 posts
 
mike, there is such a thing as "carrying it to far." Why don you just stick your turntable in an isolation camber so airborne vibration doesn’t get to it? I bet if you sit on one of those tables your hearing will improve:)

in a thread about ’stylus drag’ you are complaining about ’carrying it too far’? really? i think any participants in this thread would be considered by non audiophiles as ’carrying it too far’. it’s what we do here.

i will shamelessly admit to likely being at the far end of the ’carrying it too far’ bell curve.

i have 5 of those modified active platforms in my system; under both of my mono block amps, under my preamp, under my dac, and under my turntable. they are awesome tools to eliminate resonance. the musical connection they allow, especially when the music gets very dynamic and soars, is worth it. you can see pictures of those platforms if you look at my system page.

'carrying it to far. i'm the poster boy for that.
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