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Kinergetics SW200 rip-off ??

I recently bought a Kinergetics SW200 system through AudiogoN and after resolving the issue of grossly inaccurate description of the system's cosmetic condition (a seperate thread )I have gotten to the business of adding the subs to my system. I need help from you AudiogoNers in determining wether the system is actually working properly. My goal in purchasing the subs was to experiment with subs for the first time without spending much money. Now, I understand the issues of difficulty in blending with main speakers particularly when we're talking about speakers like the Stax F81 (electrostats). However the severerity of the broblems has surprised me, to the extent that I wonder if there isn't something wrong besides cosmetic problems. I chose the Kinergetics because it had gotten a fair amount of favorable attention a few years back, particularly in TAS; and I believe bass should be done in stereo. The following are some observations based on listening and the use of the Stereophile test CD: Speed is not as much of a problem as I had expected, it keeps up with the Stax fairly well. The quality of the bass is a problem: wooly, a little boomy, mediocre pitch definition. Extention is mediocre as well. Used with EAD7000DAC and Melos222C pre and volume pots on SW200 set at -18, output seems reasonable to 50hz. At 40hz there is a definite reduction in volume and some rattling begins. At 31.5hz previous output returns but rattling is now very dramatic. At 25hz output is greatly reduced is practically all rattle. At 20hz fuggetaboutit. In spite of all this I do mostly enjoy the new found bottom (the Stax give nothing to speak of below about 60hz in my room ), although not enough to want to deal with the other problems. The rattle is mostly not audible during music playback.I have been able to improve matters with different woofer cables, isolation etc. but the quality of the bass is just not rearly musical enough. I can't believe that they were as highly touted for use with Spicas and others as they were. The crossover, in spite of some reduction in soundstage volume, sounds reasonably transparent, a bit more electronic sound but again, not as bad as I expected. Comments and/or suggestions would be most appreciated. To the person who sold these: Your comments are welcomed as well.
frogman
justlisten's avatar
justlisten
489 posts
 
frogman, when I was using f81's I ran into the same problems you are experiencing when using Janis w1. Remembering your past post, I stand by my response at the time that the f81's are best enjoyed as they are and adding a sub does this great speaker injustice and is the root of many headaches.
vegasears
1,173 posts
 
I have used the Kinergetics SW200 system for almost 10 years and have found it very good based of BOOM for Buck. I used them with Acoustat Spectra 33’s for 8 years. Your problems sounds very similar to mine. I used the same Stereoplile disc and they would riddle. At the time I bought them I lived near the Kinergetic factory and the designer Tony DeCinero. He and my salesman gave me adjustment and placement instructions. They instructed me to leave the volume adjusted at not more than 1/3 when using my Acoustats and keep the sub speakers 5’ from any wall. It worked, well kinda. Sometimes they would riddle but only on a few disc. Given their adjustment, placement and price, they worked well at providing that missing low bass but integration was problem. I learned to live with them and over time ignore the minor riddle on a “VERY” few discs. I now have a more convential speakers in my main system which do not really need sub’s but every now and then, I’ll hook them up and pound the walls. After all these years it’s kinda nice to know it was not me.. I recently picked up a pair Spica TC 50, I too remember the great reviews. Yes, they work outstanding when coupled together, again, given the total price of speakers and sub system.
sedond
1,387 posts
 
from what i've read, it was the sw2000 that was supposed to be decent, but these were *not* budget. i like my pair of vmps larger subs, that are actually true subs, at a reasonable price. try response down to 17hz, 95db w/0.5%thd; 120db w/5.0%thd. check out the vmps www. get an active outboard x-over, like one from marchand - 24 or 48 db/octave x-over slope, & wery flexible. i'd be wery surprised if you couldn't successfully blend vmps subs w/e-stats w/these x-overs.
frogman OP
7,357 posts
 
Thanks so far everyone.
frogman OP
7,357 posts
 
Justlisten, good to hear from you again. I appreciated your comments the first time, but eventhough I strongly suspected that my attempts would lead to frustration, I decided to give the subwoofer thing a try. You obviously appreciate the great thing that the Stax's do; what a great speaker. But what a frustrating speaker it can be. Eventhough I could live with it's tonal balance, I'm bothered by it's leanness in the upper bass. Funny because I actually get better extention than I expected based on reviews. It's unfortunate because I have never before heard a midrange so rich and complete. Imaging is sensational in my room if with images perhaps a tiny bit reduced in size. If I could fill in the upper bass and the very lowest lower midrange, I could be extremely happy with this speaker. Have you had any experience with OTL's, I am currently using a pair of Manley Reference monos. My question now is: how much better than the Kinergetics subs are those by Rel or Hsu etc. at blending in with this very tonally accurate speaker. As I said before, speed is not really the problem. Rather it is the quality of the bass that bothers me. Not resolved enough. Too smeared and lacking inner detail. Is this perhaps something that all dynamic subs will be guilty of to varying degrees? Would appreciate any further comments.
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