Pass amp paired with audio research pre?

Thank you for your note! Hypothetical. Trying to think about where I should go with future purchases. I live in the sticks. Not much opportunity to listen to other components. I try to read and ask questions.

Been thinking about audio research reference 5SE, Audio research reference phono 3, pass labs 250.8.

I have a VPI classic 4 with a transfiguration Proteus cartridge…

@fanotunes
If you are thinking about solid state Pass Labs is a very good choice, but since you already have the RM200, I see no point in changing out the amp- the RM200 is pretty neutral so I would not think for a moment that is is responsible for the excessive laid back quality.

Before changing anything out, I’d consider replacing the tubes in the line stage and possibly the input tubes of the amp. Its common if those tubes get weak for the preamp or amp to get a bit ’sleepy’- which might be easily described as ’too laid back’. You may find no need to do anything else once that is done!


After making sure those tubes are not an issue, I would then investigate the phono cartridge loading. The loading is there for the preamp, not the cartridge- its meant to prevent ultrasonic or RF resonance inherent in all pickups from messing with the preamp. The correct loading (if the preamp is sensitive to RFI; ours are not so no need for the loading with LOMC cartridges;) is the **highest** value that prevents the resonant circuit caused by the cartridge inductance and the tone arm cable capacitance from going into excitation. Since each cable is different (and thus the capacitance is not predictable), cartridge manufacturers make worst case recommendations; this can result in a duller presentation, since the loading resistor means the cartridge has to do more work. This in turn results in a stiffer cantilever that is less able to trace high frequencies. That is why its advantageous to work with a preamp that does not have the RFI sensitivity in the first place- and then no need for a loading resistor.

Audio  research does have its house sound which can be a bit un-involving at times.

Your situation sounds similar to my own.  I've been there, done that.  I spent several years trying to eliminate that lifelessness.  After replacing my speakers, turntable/arm and power amp the sound was a different lifeless.  I got down to my least suspected components - ARC PH-7 and Ref 3.  Jumping ship to another brand was a revelation.  I know people love ARC.  I did.  Things change.

ARC owners can sometimes resemble owners of Linn ;-) .

Ouch! 😂😉

For those of you here who claimed that ARC house sound is uninvolving I would have to disagree with that broad general statement. You should have a listen to the ARC Reference 10 linestage preamp and other Reference series power amps such as the Ref 750 SE vacuum tube monoblock amps. Perhaps the entry level and lower end ARC products might not sound as involving as their Reference series gears. I have only listened to their Reference series gears such as the Ref 10 linestage pre and couple different Reference series models of power amps such as the Ref 750 SE vacuum tube monoblock amps and the newest latest Reference series monoblock amps that were introduced recently (can’t remember model number). So I can’t say for their lower end or entry level series products.

In regards to some of the comments made here about the so-called house sound of a particular brand, I would have to disagree with that. that’s a generalization based on insufficient evidence and facts. The so called and mentioned house sounds might have been attributed by some other components in the chain eg speakers, front end source components (both digital & analog), cablings, etc, etc.
There are so many contributing factors that some people came up with their own conclusions and called it a "house sound".