Will a subwoofer add depth and clarity to my system, or just bass?


hi folks,
I just purchased a set of Focal Aria 906 speakers with stand, powered by a Bluestream PowerNode (not my ideal system but I had a limited budget).  I think it sounds really good, but am wondering if an upgrade to a subwoofer is worth it, and if so, what would pair well with this system -- my audio guy recommended the JL Audio D110 10" Dominion Subwoofer, but that's out of my price range.  Perhaps a SVSPB1000, for $499?  My room isn't very big, and I don't use the system for movies, just listening to mostly jazz and rock (and classical).
Thank you!
jazz99
Duke,

Excellent explanation and it all makes perfect sense to me.
I was thinking, however, that I may understand better than some reading it since I’ve experienced the transformation of perceived bass response in my room by using a DBA (distributed bass array) system.
I think the practical consequences of designing a DBA system based on utilizing the principles you explained does not really become fully understood until an individual actually hears the transformation themselves.
I remember James Romeyn describing the bass response I should expect in my room from his Audio Kinesis DEBRA DBA system and thinking it all sounded too good to be true.

In fact, I recall being skeptical right up to the point I pressed play after setup was completed in my room. It didn’t take me long to know James was telling me the truth. My honest opinion is that the transformation of the bass response in my room to state of the art was nothing short of miraculous, especially considering it was affordable ($3K) and done without any mics, room correction, room treatments or other special equipment.
I know you’re too much of a gentleman to use a thread post as a sales promo for your own products so I’m taking the opportunity to do it for you and Jim as a very satisfied customer. Besides, no one ever accused me of being a gentleman.
I can state with certainty that the DBA system works extremely well whether it’s an Audio Kinesis Swarm or Debra complete system or a 4 sub custom configuration with subs of your choice.
My main point being that I could write a book on how well it performs and convince no one but it only requires a short audition to prove to anyone. To mangle an old expression, a listen is worth a thousand words.

Tim

@noble100 , thank you for taking the "leap of faith" in the first place, in spite of your totally reasonable skepticism.  And thank you for posting your experiences here.

I try to promote the CONCEPT of a distributed multi-sub system (which I learned from Earl Geddes), rather than specifically "my way" of doing it.  Obviously I put some thought into "how to do it well" at my chosen price point, but a distributed multi-sub system is a cat which can in more ways than one be skinned. 

Anyway I think it's great that you find Jim Romeyn's DEBRA to exceed your expectations and continue to make the magic happen for you over the years.  His subs arguably have a bit more practical footprint than mine do, as his hug the walls better.  

Duke 


Repeating a bit here but all my experience trying to get really good accurate low bass had me pretty well convinced it was impossible. Yet this experience wasn't all wasted. It resulted in a solid base of understanding from which to evaluate alternative approaches.

Because of this, when I happened across Geddes/Swarm/DEBRA it was immediately apparent this held promise. It still took a lot of reading to confirm. Fortunately between threads like this and the articles and reviews it led me to there is no shortage of information out there. Hard to overstate how disappointed I am that so few people are interested. Equally hard to overstate how happy I am that Duke and Tim are interested enough to share and help. Thank you guys. Bigly!

On that score, can't help but note that reading about the DEBRA setup Tim uses part way down the page it states, "Conservatively rated by designer Duke LeJeune for 113dB output @20Hz" and  “Room Gain Complementary” tuning (Duke LeJeune)." http://jamesromeyn.com/old-pages/home-audio-gear/dsa-1-0-distributed-subwoofer-array-5-pieces-4k-usd...  So DEBRA or Audiokinesis  http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html either way you are getting Duke. Which I was all set to buy, its almost a no-brainer, except I had all these sheets of MDF just taking up space in my shop! Lol! 

Way back in 1980 an article by Roger Sanders in Speaker Builder explained the challenges of bass reproduction clearly enough to compel me to invest what was for me then not inconsiderable time and money building a set of his transmission lines. With zero personal feedback from anyone having used them. Based entirely on my understanding of the principles. Worked out far better than I ever dreamed. 

Didn't see it as a leap of faith then. Don't see it that way now. More like a slam-dunk. Thanks to you guys.

Millercarbon wrote: "Hard to overstate how disappointed I am that so few people are interested."

The following is just my guess:

One of the things that is an awful lot of fun about high-end audio is, pride of ownership in a piece of equipment that has astonishing and enthralling characteristics. In a subwoofer, "astonishing and enthralling characteristics" usually have to do with how powerful it is, how deep it goes, how much air it moves, and how impressively it renders highly challenging program material such as cannon shots, pipe organ, depth charges, and dinosaur footfalls. That stuff is as engaging and entertaining as understanding and appreciating what’s under the hood of a sports car and how it translates into raw, adrenaline-jolt performance.

With a distributed multi-sub system, your budget is spread across (typically) four subwoofers, so the individual subwoofers will fall well short of what you could have in a single sub for the same price. It’s like you can have four Toyotas or one  Lamborghini. And it is not at all obvious that those four Toyotas used properly might be able to do something really cool, something even better than that one Lamborghini.

The IDEA that four (relatively) small subs can successfully address what is arguably the most important issue (room interaction) rather elegantly is competing against far more widely-accepted, and frankly far more self-evident, ideas about "what really matters" in a subwoofer system. Thank you for helping it to do so.

Duke

millercarbon,

       I'm glad you're becoming a believer in the distributed bass array concept but I'm a little confused, have you decided to buy an AK Swarm or Debra?  Or have you decided to build your own custom DBA?
     Whatever you decide, I'll be happy to help you out. 
     I set my Debra DBA system about 3 yrs ago and I'm still grateful every day that I did because I truly believe the bass response in my room is state of the art for music and ht.  
     As Duke and I've said before, there's really 3 good methods you could use to set up a DBA:  1. Buy the Swarm, 2. Buy the Debra or 3. Buy 4 subs of your choice and setup a custom system.  Both the Swarm and Debra are excellent bass systems and come with everything you need except for a interconnects and speaker wire.  But if you want the ultimate DBA, you could buy 4 top of the line subs and just follow the positioning procedure.
     I have little doubt a custom DBA with 4 top of the line subs would outperform either AK DBA but it would likely cost at least 3 times as much and the subs would be larger and more intrusive.
    Let me know if you'd like my assistance either on this thread or pm me.

Thanks,
 Tim