Quad ESL-63 and low-powered amps; Sun Audio, Atma


Looking for opinions about suitability of low-powered amps with my 63's. I currently have an Audio Note M3 pre, CJ MV-60 amp. Importantly, I cross the Quads at line level at 100 hz, first order with nice Vandersteen MH-5 crossovers to Vandy 2wq subs. So the main amp is relieved of much work below 50 hz or so.

Specifically, I am looking at Atma-sphere s-30 MkII OTL 30 watt amp, and possibly even a Sun Audio 2a3 SET 3 watt amp.

Given my crossover, does this lighten the load (power or impedance) in such a way that these amps would work fine? I imagine the Atma will have no issues, but what about the Sun?

Finally, I would love to hear any opinions about the relative sonic characteristics I might hear between the CJ, Atma and Sun. I listen to 50% acoustic jazz, 25% classical, 25% rock. 60% on vinyl... SOTA w/Grace 714 and Grado Ref Sonata1. CD is CEC transport to Audio Note 3.1 Signature. I value musicality and rich midrange over endless detail and "neutrality".

Thanks all.
montaldo
I have used 6336 single ened amp to drive stacked quad57 to my best satisfction.  Stay away from low damp factor tubep such as otl amps. Do not use sub woofer  unless you are not capable of detect  any phase shift of the speakers. 

Isn't this incredible that regardless of the topic or the thread wherein, our self proclaimed know all sucks you into this absurdly ridiculous, and exceedingly mundane, discussion of,... well, I'm in a loss of words in even how to characterize it. There's always an excuse and explanation instead of accepting the change in position which should be normal as we learn and grow.

Well, my friend willemj, with all due respect, I will be filtering your responses going forward. Not that I'm sure you care but just a little humility and acknowledgement of ones poor judgment can go a long way. Responding to your arguments is a colossal waste of time.

been a very very long time since I have mucked about with ESL-63..we sold them alongside KEF, Acoustat, ADS, Vandersteen, Beveridge, Infiniti, etc....
last time I owned a set of Quads was the 57 with a CJ45...lovely....

so i bought a pair at auction here for a song....anyway, they of course need rebuilding...which will actually be great learning fun...

plan to run them with my 1961 MC240

enjoy the music.....
If you decide not to complete the updating yourself I recommend Kent McCollum at Electrostatic Solutions for Quad rebuild. I bought mine from him and had.a great experience.

Have fun with those quads.

So as long as a well designed amplifier is not driven into clipping it should sound the same as another one not driven into clipping.
This is a pretty big assumption. What is meant by ’well designed amplifier’?

Designers have different goals so their amps are going to sound different. The reason is twofold: output impedance and distortion. All amps make audible distortion- that’s probably the first thing that should be a given, but so many people think that since an amp has 0.005% THD its distortion is inaudible, and that simply isn’t so.

The reason for *that* is that the human ear/brain system uses higher ordered harmonics to sense sound pressure and to this end is more sensitive to these harmonics than most good test equipment. This is complicated by the Fletcher-Munson curve, which shows that our greatest sensitivity is in the upper midrange - birdsong frequencies. Many instruments have fundamentals that are much lower than that, so if harmonics due to distortion show up in this region we’re tuned to hear it.

Most amps that have very low THD also have distortion signatures that are almost entirely composed of higher ordered harmonics. Some of this is on account of the feedback used- while it suppresses distortion, it also adds some of its own (see the writings of Norman Crowhurst; this should be no secret as he was writing about this 50 years ago).

The human ear converts all forms of distortion into some form of tonality- we’ve known this since the 1930s (see the Radiotron Designer’s Handbook, 3rd Edition).

My goal as a designer is to minimize the distortion product to which the ear is most sensitive- IMD and the higher harmonics (5th and above). Others seek to have flat frequency response with overall low distortion, but I’m here to say that doesn’t work out so well. If you don’t pay attention to how the ear perceives sound, you will wind up with colorations- specifically brightness and harshness. That’s a coloration as much as the ever loving 2nd harmonic that so many tube amps have. The ear has tipping points where it will favor distortion over frequency response, so you have to be careful!

Just my opinion of course... The majority of the audio world, which is ’mid fi’ to the high end market, does not agree. In that world, a Pioneer is as good as a Pass for a lot less bucks because the specs don’t lie, right? The problem is that we audiophiles have been lied to for a very long time and we each intrinsically know that we still have to audition the product no matter what the spec sheet says. That is because the spec sheet isn’t based on how the ear/brain system works, its based on how the eye works and how a good story can propagate even when its not true. In a nutshell, most spec sheets are an excellent example of the Emperor’s New Clothes; a lesson which seems to be lost on so many these days...
Bottom line: well designed amps are not going to sound like each other. You have to know the designer’s intention. One might want it to look good on paper, another might want it to sound like real music. That’s a **huge** difference, yet both can be ’well designed’!!