Affordable Processor with Fabulous 2 Channel ?


Gang,

I'm using my Mytek Brooklyn DAC as a pre for music and TV. It is fabulous sounding but I really would like to have 5.1 channel surround, and a single remote! 

Is there an affordable processor (used OK) that has at least as good 2 channel performance? Emotiva is right out. I owned one, and it sounded thin as paper. I note that there are a lot of Krell processors for sale at reasonable prices. 

Thoughts?

Erik
erik_squires
@Erik_squires 

Nope. The Classe SSP 800 & Sigma SSP do not convert their analog inputs to digital. There’s an analog bypass feature that you need to choose.
It will however convert it to digital if you choose to use their crossover and use the manual PEQ with the analog audio inputs. But if one wants to use their analog audio inputs most likely will bypass DSP and other digital processings. But you will have to tick that analog bypass otherwise DSP and other digital processings gets in the way.

Yep, caphill is correct in that most processors will have a true "analog passthrough" mode.  It's correct that it will not do bass management/crossover, since you are just sending 2-channel analog directly through to the left/right speakers only.  Even Krell has a mode like this.

For HT digital sound quality, caphill may be correct.  The differences in sound quality for 2-channel analog passthrough introduce a new segment:  the analog input stage.  This can actually make or break the sound quality of an HT processor when used as a 2-channel analog preamp.  If caphill is saying that Sigma is better for 2-channel analog, then Classe may have built a better analog input stage.  The SSP-800 was really intended for HT processing, so the analog inputs stages may not be as good.

I do know that the Bryston SP3 uses another set of their discrete Class A circuits for all 8 channels of the input stages, so caphill's comment about the SP3 being great for 2-channel analog audio could be correct. I still don't like the SP3 architecture - where they have a big main power supply, but no localized power supply capacitors around the actual analog circuits.  I have found through R&D that this lack of localized power supply will give you softer mids/highs and a lacking in attack/resolution.  To each their own, though.  One thing I like about Krell Class A circuits is that they have a lot of localized caps (typically soemting like 6 x 47uf capacitors around a single channel audio stage).  This gives them extreme amounts of attack and resolution.  However, the Krell main power supply is typically undersized (especially in their HT processors) so that you get the typical Krell thin/bright sonic signature.

"But high end pre pros like the Classe SSP 800, Classe Sigma SSP, Bryston SP3, Meridian Ref 861 v8 are great for both stereo and surrounds (HT) and can function as high end stereo preamps."

Yup.  I completely agree.  But as multichannel formats and connectivity change as they undoubtedly will, you're stuck with these processors that at some point will not be upgradeable to new formats.  This is one of the main reasons I recommended buying a relatively cheap AVR for processing and spending relatively more money on a good stereo preamp.  If I have a quality stereo pre like the Pass X-2.5 or the Hegel P20 (and yes, I'd challenge even good prepros to match their stereo performance) at the heart of my 2-channel system, do I care too much if video processing or connectivity change in the future?  No.  I just swap in a new and relatively cheap AVR to handle that stuff and go on my merry way with my quality stereo pre -- thank you very much.  Spending the same or more right now to buy a soon-to-be outdated prepro that has a good stereo preamp section makes little sense to me since you'll end up with a boat anchor in the near future when A/V standards inevitably change.  If 2-channel audio is the priority, THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE TO ME.  Why pay for all those expensive multichannel DACs and processors in a high-end prepro if that's not the priority of the system in the first place?  And, by the way, those multichannel features, which are of secondary importance to the OP in the first place, will be THE FIRST things to be obsolete!!!  WHAT???  Again, if 2-channel is the priority -- and with a DAC at the level of a Mytek Brooklyn DAC -- why would you pay so much for stuff that is of secondary importance and will go the way of the Dodo in relatively short order?  Again, if stereo is the priority this older, high-end prepro route makes absolutely NO sense to me.  That's all I got.  Again, best of luck in your decision and peace out. 
@auxinput

The SSP 800 stereo performance or when used as a stereo analog preamp is superb especially coming from an AV pre pro but the Sigma SSP is slightly better but not by much. The difference was subtle. They sounded similar but the Sigma SSP has lower noise floor thus quieter, better image focus, everything were rendered more faithfully, slightly better dynamic range, etc. But again the difference was subtle.

The Sigma SSP’s USB DAC input signal path circuit architecture, spdif & Toslink input stages as well as analog input stages for only front LR channels were copied and pasted from that of the Classe CP-800 stereo preamp/DAC. The analog input stages of the CP-800 stereo preamp is known to be superior to that of the SSP 800 pre pro and sounded better than the SSP 800. Actually the stereo performance of the Sigma SSP is very close to that of the CP 800 stereo preamp, regardless of whether using the XLR stereo analog inputs or USB DAC inputs.
It takes highly trained ears in order to tell the difference between the two.

Both Classe CP 800 stereo preamp/DAC and Classe Sigma SSP’s front channels use exact same DAC chips but the CP 800 uses 2 DAC chips per channel whereas the Sigma SSP uses only one DAC chip per channel for its front LCR channels. Both the CP 800 stereo preamp/DAC and the Sigma SSP USB DAC input port sounded significantly better than their other digital audio inputs (spdif, Toslink). These two preamps were designed around the USB DAC input ports. You can read more on that online under Classe CP 800 reviews. However the Classe CP 800 stereo preamp/DAC originally retailed for $1k more than the Sigma SSP pre pro which makes the Sigma SSP a better value.

However, when designing a cheaper AV pre pro (Sigma SSP) Classe had to make some sacrifices such as limited features, limited connections (inputs & outputs) on the Sigma SSP in order to build a cheaper AV pre pro than the SSP 800 without sacrificing audio performances. There are features and connectivities that are omitted when designing and building the Sigma SSP.
You won’t find legacy analog video connections, no multi-channel analog audio 7.1 inputs on the Sigma SSP.
Classe also decided to limit the XLR balanced audio outputs only for front LR channels only (they are true differential or fully balanced circuitry) and the rest of the channels are single-ended design and have only RCA outs.

The Classe SSP 800 and Sigma SSP have different design philosophy. The Sigma SSP is optimized for stereo listening to music and is for someone who’s looking for an AV pre pro but main priority will be for two-channel listening to music but wants to have good multi-channel capabilities as well for HT or movies.
The Classe Sigma SSP isn’t for someone who’s looking for a processor for strictly HT use, that would be more for the SSP 800 or Datasat, Trinnov, Anthem, Marantz, Lyngdorf MP-50, Audio Control Maestro.

Actually the new Anthem AVM60 pre pro ($3k retail price brand new) performs extraordinary in surrounds for strictly HT use with the ARC2 engaged. The ARC2 (Anthem Room Correction) is a phenomenal room correction and is one of top notch and is probably on par with Room Perfect & Dirac Live. The Anthem AVM60, with the ARC2 engaged, will outperform the Classe Sigma SSP when used for surrounds or HT and rivals the much more expensive SSP 800.
But when used as a stereo preamp with room correction turned off both Classe Sigma SSP & SSP 800 sounded better than the Anthem AVM60. Hands down.
It all depends on what you are going to use the pre pro for.

The Anthem AVM60 pre pro is an absolute steal and if you are going to use it for strictly HT or surround movies the Anthem AVM60 will be perfect. But the ARC (Anthem Room Correction) is somewhat difficult to implement and get it set up properly. It isn’t plug n play kinda thing like the Audyssey in Marantz & Denon products.
But if you know how to set it up correctly it is very effective and extraordinary, way better than Audyssey.

However, the Anthem AVM60, both Classe SSP 800 & Sigma SSP, the Bryston SP3 aren’t equipped with video processor / upscaler. The video is simply pass through unaltered. They simply switch the video, they don’t process it. It makes more sense not to equip av pre pro or AVR with a video processor / upscaler. IMO the video part is better off handled on your display or an external video processor or the Oppo players are very good in this area.