Why are my woofers pumping?


The other day, with sunlight direct from the side, I noticed that the woofers in my speakers are pumping in and out, much more than I was aware of, when the stylus is in the groove, even between tracks (no music).  I can see it, even if I don’t hear it. Why does it happen? The woofers behave normally (no pumping) with digital music, and when the stylus it lifted from the groove, so it is not the speakers, amps, preamp or phono stage. 

I’ve read that the typical reason for woofer pumping is that the cartridge / arm resonance is too low.  I tested, with my Hifi News test record, and yes, the lateral test puts the resonance at 7 hz or so – too low (but I’ve seen some doubts about the results from that test record).  It is strange, since the combo I use – Lyra Atlas cartridge and  SME V arm (on a Hanss T-30 player) is supposed to work well. I tried to strip my arm of extras, cleaned the damping trough, etc – but it did not help much.

Anyone has an idea, why it happens, or what to do about it?  


Ag insider logo xs@2xo_holter
There must be other Lyra cartridge / SME V owners out there, who have or don't have woofer pumping - ? Would be nice to hear from you! And maybe J Carr from Lyra could give a comment?

Atmasphere's advice reminded me of the old trick with the SME V to reduce effective mass: put the spring-loaded weight scale at zero, and then adjust the counterweight closer to the bearing of the arm. I use an electronic weight to get it exact at 1.72 g.

Based on Atmasphere's advice, I also tried higher loading, going from 475 ohm to 121 ohm (not so easy on the Io, changing a jumper at the back). Result? Musicality: great. "Echoes" sounds a bit sweeter, more mellow. I realize, I am moved by the music - always a good sign. Is it also a bit duller, rolled off, or contracted? Not sure. Maybe a little. I will have to try the middle setting (243 ohm). Testing with the Hifi news record, I did not find any change in the resonance frequency, it is still down at ca 7.5Hz.

More precisely: I can hear the test tone starting to quiver at 8Hz, increasing down to 7Hz, and then I can see the cantilever vibrating badly at 7-6Hz. So the effect of my various measures to raise the resonance seems rather small, and yet, the woofers have mainly stopped pumping. Why? Something else I did? Just changing the position of the player and spindle, a little? Is it the position of the sun (as was suggested)? The collective psyche of Audiogon members? I wish I could report some more hard facts. But whatever the case, I am mainly happy with the outcome. Even with NOS tubes in the first gain stage, the Io's noise level is mostly below the average groove noise level.  

Like I said in a earlier post, just buy the KAB rumble filter and be done with it!  I tried everything mentioned in this thread at one time or another and only the KAB filter worked with no loss in bass quality or quantity.  I am using it with a VPT Prime and a ZU/Denon Dl103mc.  My woofers would oscilate so much I thought they were going to come right out of the cabinets.  With the KAB, nothing, nada and perfect pitched
Based on Atmasphere's advice, I also tried higher loading, going from 475 ohm to 121 ohm (not so easy on the Io, changing a jumper at the back). Result? Musicality: great. "Echoes" sounds a bit sweeter, more mellow. I realize, I am moved by the music - always a good sign. Is it also a bit duller, rolled off, or contracted? Not sure. Maybe a little. I will have to try the middle setting (243 ohm). Testing with the Hifi news record, I did not find any change in the resonance frequency, it is still down at ca 7.5Hz.
Loading should not affect the tonality of the cartridge, as essentially the loading is to prevent a resonance at very high frequencies from occurring by detuning it. If it made for an improvement, it means that the phono section is sensitive to RFI at its input and may have stability problems (but not the sort that cause woofer pumping).

In an ideal situation, the cartridge should be loaded by 47K. With low load resistances (like 100 ohms) the cartridge has to do more work, and that energy coming from the stylus motion means that the cantilever has to be stiffer as well. JCarr and I talked about this at Munich a few years ago.

Now you mentioned that you examined the platter bearing- did you lubricate it? If the platter bearing was dry, the simple act of removing the platter and reinstalling it may have gotten enough lubricant in place to result in the reduced woofer pumping. So the arm and cartridge combo not being ideal might be a complete red herring.
@o_holter Reading over these posts I'd lean toward motor, pulley or bearing as the source of the problem.  By way of example, a couple years ago I noticed excessive woofer pumping in my speakers.  It was extreme to the point where I could hear chugging from my subwoofer.  I have a VPI HW-19 Mark IV with a very early SAMA.  The early SAMAs came with a flywheel that was a large stainless steel washer that just slipped over the motor shaft.  Upon examination I noticed that this "flywheel" was wobbling while the motor was running.  I removed the flywheel and the problem was solved.  I later learned that VPI eventually realized the flywheel was causing more problems than benefit and discontinued using it.

Since you observed much less pumping after removing your platter it sounds like either your platter was out of balance on the bearing or the bearing was not properly seated.  I would clean the bearing shaft with long qtips and reoil the bearing shaft with a high quality oil.  I use sewing machine oil.  Second, I'd examine the pulleys and motor shaft for any wobble.
Cheers,