Thumbs up for ultrasonic record cleaning

I had no idea this post would generate so much traffic, I was merely intending to endorse the notion of US cleaning (and btw I have no affiliation with Cleaner Vinyl or any other US or record cleaning company).

As there is more interest and lots of questions - many of whom have been answered by people far smarter than - I will simply tell you how I’m using it and some observations.

Before I get there, please note, I’m in the "good enough" / "incremental improvement" camp and not the seeker of total audio perfection. So I’m more interested in moving quickly through my record collection than cleaning one or two records at a time to perfection. So some of what you see here may be far from optimal, maybe even heretical to some of you.

Lastly, I know there are bonafide chemists who contribute to this subject and much has been written on the subject of which products and mixtures should be used, I just made my own home brew from info I read and haven’t looked back. If my vinyl dissolves into an unplayable oily heap I will regret my cavalier approach, but right now I’m a pretty happy camper.

I'm using the Cleaner Vinyl Pro - it's supposed to allow for 12 records at a time, but I only clean 6 at a time.
My US machine is a PS-30A 6 litre unit.
I brew the cleaning solution as follows
3 oz of 99% isopropyl alcohol
A couple drops of clear dish soap
1 Teaspoon of photo flow
150 ounces of distilled water (approximately)
So, I’ve got a solution of about 50 to 1 distilled water to alcohol

Turn on the tank for 15 minutes before doing anything else - I read that this agitation removes some oxygen/gases from the solution (degassing)

Turn the temperature to 35 centigrade. I haven’t experimented much with this, but it seems that I have a hard time getting the temp over 30c with the lid off of the unit. I leave the unit on till I see 30c. Based on some responses above I will experiment more with this.

I then load 6 records on to the spindle and place them in the tank for a period of 15 minutes.

When time is up I hold the spinning spindle above the tank for maybe 1 minute and let excess solution drain off.

Then I place the motor / spindle on a flat surface and take each record and put it on the Record Doctor. I give them a light scrub with the solution that is still on the records and then vacuum them dry.

Observations
1. I think 6 records at a time is too many for optimal cleaning. I think I only have about one half inch between records and it should be more. As pointed out above more space would likely improve cleaning. But again, I’m trying to move smartly through a collection of records that are generally in good to very good shape. If I start buying more used records I will likely have to give them more individual attention. Likewise if I play a record and it doesn’t sound right I can give another cleaning.

2. Pay attention to fluid levels. The fluid evaporates pretty quickly. You’ve got 1-n rotating disks drawing warm water up from the tank and pretty good surface area on each record and fluid evaoporates quickly. When you fill the tank use the label as your guide and not the run out grooves. Obviously the run out grooves vary greatly from record to record.

3. I skip the rinse step in favor of vacuuming with record doctor. I’m hoping this is a reasonable compromise.

4. I will clean up to 30 records in a single batch of fluid. I have no filter (although I think one would be cool / useful). After thirty or so records I drain the fluid and mix up a new batch. However... I keep looking in the tank and assessing. In one instance, after one batch of records the solution went from clear to almost milky so that necessitated changing the solution immediately. Based on what I’m seeing in the tank much of what is removed (at least what you can see with the naked eye) is particulate which seems to fall to the bottom of the tank and stay there. Also, while I know the solution is getting dirty with each use I’m guessing / hoping that whatever is left in the grooves will at least have been loosened by the US treatment and then the Record Doctor will suction off these loosened particles.

5. I would use a vacuum device as a last step. For one thing it saves a great deal of time over letting records air dry, and for another I think it’s just prudent to suck all of the remaining solution off the surface of the record. The Record Doctor is $200 and while probably not as good as some other products I think it’s great for this application.

6. Using the above I’ve cleaned roughly 120 records over the last 4 days. I work from home and so I can set some up to clean and when I find a few minutes I can vacuum them clean and start a new batch.

All in all, a very worthwhile endeavor and most importantly it’s getting me to play and enjoy all kinds of music.

Yours in cleaner vinyl.

I cannot answer all of your questions, in part because I am not mixing any solution for my ultrasonic for the reason stated above (I use a KL machine right now).
One issue I see as a potential hazard is the flash point of isopropyl even diluted, given the vapor. I believe that the chemistry suggests it should be below 3% of overall volume for the temperature you are achieving (Note, i am not a chemist so this should be checked). Is 3 ounces of alcohol in 6 liters really a 50/1 ratio? My maths suggested it was about 5% but there is a reason I didn’t major in math- somebody check me here.

Alcohol will work as a solvent, I’m not sure how effective it is as as surfactant (to break surface tension of the water, which is the goal). I believe one of its long time values in record cleaning generally is that it evaporates quickly. For effective formulae, you should read Rushton Paul’s article if you haven’t; there are others, including a formula Tima (Tim Ackerman adopted) that is posted on my blog; others, including @terry9 (who does have a scientific background) can offer more on the chemistry they have found effective and also weigh in on whether I’m being a nervous nelly about the amount of alcohol being used.
In general record cleaning- whether ultrasonic or conventional- the main points are effectiveness of the solution/method and the ability to remove the solution from the record, once done. I do know old school record cleaning folks that used Photoflo and no rinse. My impression is that it leaves a residue as do most of these chemicals and cleaners. That’s why I employ a rinse step. (Even though I’m not using chemistry in my ultrasonic, if I have a record that I’m especially concerned with, I will, once removed from the ultrasonic bath, do a rinse step using reagent grade water and point nozzle vacuum system (Monks or Loricraft- which doesn’t have the same issues as wand or velvet ’lips’ type RCMs)).

You said you just want "good enough" and don’t want to go all white lab coat-- there are some who say vacuuming after ultrasonic defeats the whole purpose of US cleaning given the potential for contamination and static caused by some conventional RCMs. You have to make a choice here- by experimenting with the chemistry- Tima does not do a rinse step using his brew (which I think is an adaptation of the London Jazz Collector mixture meant for conventional cleaning); others, like @@terry9, @slaw might be able to tell you what their experience is. But I think first stop is Rush Paul’s article if you haven’t read it.
Number of records per load- this has also been calculated- is in the original diyaudio thread and has been verified independently by other’s empirical experience-- I can give you links to some of this if you can’t find it but for a smallish bath it’s more like 2 records at a time with space in between.
There is good proof that a filter goes a long way- again, not to rely on what I publish but Tima did a follow up on his results using a filter-- pretty much the same one outlined in the diyaudio one that Rush adapted- and there was a lot of crap picked up by the filter. See [url]http://thevinylpress.com/record-cleaning-timas-diy-ultrasonic-rcm-followup-1/[/url] How long can you go before changing the water without a filter? I don’t know. Part of it depends on how much crap there is on the records to begin with I guess. (I pre-clean, so less of an issue).

@whart 

You are too modest, whart.

As far as alcohols are concerned, the issue is 'flash point', the temperature at which a vapour ignites. Since the US machine operates on electricity, there is always the chance of a spark, hence a constant hazard. That can easily be managed in an industrial environment, in a laundry room, not so much.

The issues vary from mathematical to the idiosyncrasies of the equipment. Calculations are a little opaque because of our antique measuring system. For example, ounce and fluid ounce are quite different. Concentrations can be measured by mass or by volume; chemists are very careful about this, they even have their own vocabulary. 

Remember too that US cleaners work best when filled to 2/3 full. That means a 6 litre tank contains 4 litres of fluid. Temperature can vary quite dramatically in the fluid column, so the position as well as accuracy of the sensor matter. Then too, the machine might be left on longer than intended, causing an unexpected rise in temperature. These are all sources of potential error, and hazard.

Botom line: I would only use an alcohol if I had a good reason to do so. IMO, records do not demand it.

About soap - don't use it. It can form a soap scum, especially in hard water. Detergent does not. I use a lab grade detergent, VersaClean, from Fisher Scientific. First, it doesn't have crap like perfume mixed in.  Second, it is said to be formulated for plastics. Third, it is recommended for US, based on their experiments, so I don't have to experiment.

Fourth, it is sold by a lab supply company - their stuff has to work as specified, or there is hell to pay, because zillion dollar facilities rely on it. And zillion dollar facilities have the expertise to analyze their supplies and reagents. And they punch above their weight. So I align my interests with theirs.

About rinsing - I do. First is highly purified running water, second is a distilled bath.

Just my opinions. YMMV

Good stuff.  I appreciate all the feedback / guidance.  And hopefully others will too.

I agree that my methods are compromised in an effort to move more quickly through my collection.

The alcohol to distilled water should be about 50 to 1. Roughly 150 ounces of water (a gallon and then some) vs 3 ounces of alcohol.

Based on the above I will tone down my use of alcohol and I will likely look into Versaclean as an alternative to soap products.  I may also look into getting a pump/filter - it can only help.

About how much Versaclean should I add to my 150 oz mixture?

Also, I think I need to buy a thermometer to get an alternate reading on fluid temperature.

With respect to filling the tank only two thirds full to optimize performance  I don't think I have a solution to that as I need the water level to cover the entire surface of the record. 

I did go back and clean a couple of previously cleaned records putting just two on a spindle to see if I'd notice a difference.  Did this a couple of times and I couldn't see any noticeable particulate in the tank, but I think this is a suspect test as I imagine much of what gets removed is hard to see with the naked eye.

In any event, it's clear that my solution and approach is less than optimal, but it does seem to be a big step forward so I think I will make the changes to alcohol and look into Versaclean and a pump/filter and continue to forge ahead.

Thanks again for all the input.

Pleasure to help, Phil. We're all in this together!

I use VersaClean at 40:1 for clean records, the minimum recommended. For garage sale records, 20:1. A gallon goes a loooong way! (guilty secret here - also works brilliantly for good wine glasses)

I cleaned about 2000 records at insufficient heat, spacing, and rinsing. Then I upgraded methodology to 45C, 1.75", and heroic rinsing, changed the chemistry and re-cleaned 30 records as an experiment. I found almost as much debris at the bottom of the US tank as the first time (which was US cleaning of previously VPI cleaned records). I observed no discoloration the second time. Listening tests confirmed the improvement. Machine was an Elmasonic running at 80KHz.