Thumbs up for ultrasonic record cleaning


My Cleaner Vinyl ultrasonic record cleaner arrived today and it’s impressive.

Everything I’d read indicated that ultrasonic was the way to go, and now I count myself among the believers. Everything is better - records are quieter, less ticks and pops, more detail etc.

All my records had been previously cleaned with a vacuum record cleaner and were well cared for. Nonetheless, the difference is obvious and overwhelmingly positive.

Phil
phil0618
I cannot answer all of your questions, in part because I am not mixing any solution for my ultrasonic for the reason stated above (I use a KL machine right now).
One issue I see as a potential hazard is the flash point of isopropyl even diluted, given the vapor. I believe that the chemistry suggests it should be below 3% of overall volume for the temperature you are achieving (Note, i am not a chemist so this should be checked). Is 3 ounces of alcohol in 6 liters really a 50/1 ratio? My maths suggested it was about 5% but there is a reason I didn’t major in math- somebody check me here.

Alcohol will work as a solvent, I’m not sure how effective it is as as surfactant (to break surface tension of the water, which is the goal). I believe one of its long time values in record cleaning generally is that it evaporates quickly. For effective formulae, you should read Rushton Paul’s article if you haven’t; there are others, including a formula Tima (Tim Ackerman adopted) that is posted on my blog; others, including @terry9 (who does have a scientific background) can offer more on the chemistry they have found effective and also weigh in on whether I’m being a nervous nelly about the amount of alcohol being used.
In general record cleaning- whether ultrasonic or conventional- the main points are effectiveness of the solution/method and the ability to remove the solution from the record, once done. I do know old school record cleaning folks that used Photoflo and no rinse. My impression is that it leaves a residue as do most of these chemicals and cleaners. That’s why I employ a rinse step. (Even though I’m not using chemistry in my ultrasonic, if I have a record that I’m especially concerned with, I will, once removed from the ultrasonic bath, do a rinse step using reagent grade water and point nozzle vacuum system (Monks or Loricraft- which doesn’t have the same issues as wand or velvet ’lips’ type RCMs)).

You said you just want "good enough" and don’t want to go all white lab coat-- there are some who say vacuuming after ultrasonic defeats the whole purpose of US cleaning given the potential for contamination and static caused by some conventional RCMs. You have to make a choice here- by experimenting with the chemistry- Tima does not do a rinse step using his brew (which I think is an adaptation of the London Jazz Collector mixture meant for conventional cleaning); others, like @@terry9, @slaw might be able to tell you what their experience is. But I think first stop is Rush Paul’s article if you haven’t read it.
Number of records per load- this has also been calculated- is in the original diyaudio thread and has been verified independently by other’s empirical experience-- I can give you links to some of this if you can’t find it but for a smallish bath it’s more like 2 records at a time with space in between.
There is good proof that a filter goes a long way- again, not to rely on what I publish but Tima did a follow up on his results using a filter-- pretty much the same one outlined in the diyaudio one that Rush adapted- and there was a lot of crap picked up by the filter. See [url]http://thevinylpress.com/record-cleaning-timas-diy-ultrasonic-rcm-followup-1/[/url] How long can you go before changing the water without a filter? I don’t know. Part of it depends on how much crap there is on the records to begin with I guess. (I pre-clean, so less of an issue).
@whart 

You are too modest, whart.

As far as alcohols are concerned, the issue is 'flash point', the temperature at which a vapour ignites. Since the US machine operates on electricity, there is always the chance of a spark, hence a constant hazard. That can easily be managed in an industrial environment, in a laundry room, not so much.

The issues vary from mathematical to the idiosyncrasies of the equipment. Calculations are a little opaque because of our antique measuring system. For example, ounce and fluid ounce are quite different. Concentrations can be measured by mass or by volume; chemists are very careful about this, they even have their own vocabulary. 

Remember too that US cleaners work best when filled to 2/3 full. That means a 6 litre tank contains 4 litres of fluid. Temperature can vary quite dramatically in the fluid column, so the position as well as accuracy of the sensor matter. Then too, the machine might be left on longer than intended, causing an unexpected rise in temperature. These are all sources of potential error, and hazard.

Botom line: I would only use an alcohol if I had a good reason to do so. IMO, records do not demand it.

About soap - don't use it. It can form a soap scum, especially in hard water. Detergent does not. I use a lab grade detergent, VersaClean, from Fisher Scientific. First, it doesn't have crap like perfume mixed in.  Second, it is said to be formulated for plastics. Third, it is recommended for US, based on their experiments, so I don't have to experiment.

Fourth, it is sold by a lab supply company - their stuff has to work as specified, or there is hell to pay, because zillion dollar facilities rely on it. And zillion dollar facilities have the expertise to analyze their supplies and reagents. And they punch above their weight. So I align my interests with theirs.

About rinsing - I do. First is highly purified running water, second is a distilled bath.

Just my opinions. YMMV

Good stuff.  I appreciate all the feedback / guidance.  And hopefully others will too.

I agree that my methods are compromised in an effort to move more quickly through my collection.

The alcohol to distilled water should be about 50 to 1. Roughly 150 ounces of water (a gallon and then some) vs 3 ounces of alcohol.

Based on the above I will tone down my use of alcohol and I will likely look into Versaclean as an alternative to soap products.  I may also look into getting a pump/filter - it can only help.

About how much Versaclean should I add to my 150 oz mixture?

Also, I think I need to buy a thermometer to get an alternate reading on fluid temperature.

With respect to filling the tank only two thirds full to optimize performance  I don't think I have a solution to that as I need the water level to cover the entire surface of the record. 

I did go back and clean a couple of previously cleaned records putting just two on a spindle to see if I'd notice a difference.  Did this a couple of times and I couldn't see any noticeable particulate in the tank, but I think this is a suspect test as I imagine much of what gets removed is hard to see with the naked eye.

In any event, it's clear that my solution and approach is less than optimal, but it does seem to be a big step forward so I think I will make the changes to alcohol and look into Versaclean and a pump/filter and continue to forge ahead.

Thanks again for all the input.


Pleasure to help, Phil. We're all in this together!

I use VersaClean at 40:1 for clean records, the minimum recommended. For garage sale records, 20:1. A gallon goes a loooong way! (guilty secret here - also works brilliantly for good wine glasses)

I cleaned about 2000 records at insufficient heat, spacing, and rinsing. Then I upgraded methodology to 45C, 1.75", and heroic rinsing, changed the chemistry and re-cleaned 30 records as an experiment. I found almost as much debris at the bottom of the US tank as the first time (which was US cleaning of previously VPI cleaned records). I observed no discoloration the second time. Listening tests confirmed the improvement. Machine was an Elmasonic running at 80KHz.
Thanks Terry.
@terry9 

I've already started to make slight mods...

Backed off the chemicals - basically cut everything in half.
Ordered Versaclean
Only cleaning 4 records at a time instead of 6
Not sure if my machine will be able to get temp up to 45C with the lid off, but I will give it a go.

I also took a closer look at the water / solution and I can see from certain angles that there is more going on than I imagine.  There are things suspended in the water - not just the particulate that I see at the bottom of the tank.  I think this means either more frequent cleanings of the water or that I should get a pump.

Not sure that I want to take on the heroic rinsing right now, but perhaps going forward I will spot clean/rinse some of my favorites as an experiment.

And thanks for the tip regarding VersaClean on my stemware.

Cheers,
Phil