Tube Integrated Amp to Drive Floorstanding Speakers?


forgive me, but i'm a relative newbie to audiophile concepts.  i am looking to build a 2 channel system for music that i can grow with.  currently i have a VPI Prime, Soundsmith MKIII cart.   I'm using a vintage kenwood KA-9100 driving Elac Uni F bookshelf speakers for my office.   

in the future, i plan on a listening room of 15x20, give or take.    I am intrigued by integrated tube amps - looking at all sorts, including PrimaLuna, VPI 299d, etc.   but these amps have lower WPC outputs.   I'd like to grow into a floorstanding set, something like the Monitor Gold, KEF R-series or PBS Imagine T3 range.    My tastes range from Classical to Classic Rock.   i do not blast music by any means.    Is an integrated tube amp (35-40 wpc) sufficient and will it leave room to grow?   ideally i'd like a home threater bypass should i decide to add TV that into the mix
mjb87062017

Hi!

Well, which way to paradise? Or how do I get to Oz from here and will I need the witches broom too?

80% of the music is made in the first 20 watts. Generally speaking.

Low power amps do a good job of limiting speaker choices. It does not mean however, it limits the end result.

To open the speaker door further, begin with a quality stable of 75 – 150wpc @ 8ohms,

Building a rig front to back, or back to front always seems the question. Back to front has apparently more subscribers than the front end to speakers devotees.

Regardless, either dedication will achieve the same result. Eventually. Unless….

The integrated amp has some power. Check out the BAT VK3000, or 3000SE. BAT used to provide an upgrade path for those who were unable or unwilling to go all in at the onset. Maybe they still do which makes the VK3000 a real upscale option as a very good starting INT arrangement.

VK-3000SE Amplifier
Number of Channels   2    
Output Power at 8Ω/4Ω   150W / 300W  
Frequency Response   2Hz to 180kHz
Inputs 2 XLR + 3 RCA  
Input Impedance   100 kΩ minimum each phase
HT pass thru
Volume control resolution   0.5db   Volume Control number of steps   140
Tube Complement   2 x 6H30  
Preamplifier Outputs   1 XLR balanced output
*XLR > RCA adapters here will allow for RCA amp usage.
Tape Output   1 RCA  
Speaker Outputs 2 pair gold-plated binding posts
Remote Control  
Standard   Options   Phono (MM/MC)
Color (black,silver/black)
Dimensions (WHD) Inches   19" x 5.75" x 15.5"   Weight   50 lbs

Add on an amp later. Go balanced front to back if desired, source to speakers.

Right off the speaker options are exponential with 150wpc @ 8, doubling to 300wpc @ 4. Regardless the room size. All but the most demanding panels will work well with this InT. bookshelfs, monitors, or FS, its your call.

I prefer the front to back pathway as it all begins with the signal in the first place.

Go out and buy the most speaker you can and essentially, your married to them and everything upstream has to meet their needs. Pricey squeakers will not perform optimally until the upstream components can feed them an equivalency in both POWER and Signal purity.

On the other hand, quite competent squeakers can and will deliver very satisfying accounts of themselves, provided what they are getting from the upstream items is at least decent or eventually, exceptional.

I’ve heard Reference level speakers sound ho hum, pretty good, very nice, with ho hum, pretty good, very nice front ends, but never have I heard top shelf speakers sound better than what is pushing them. EVER.

With the aforementioned front end plus top tier speakers, the most improvement in general was had from doing an upgrade to the source, or to the power train, and the best result came from both of these facets being improved upon. Although, improving upon the source device (S) gave the biggest bang for the buck. Thereafter, it was a matter of controlling the speakers with adequate power.

IMO, it seems a shame to have outstanding transducers sitting there, waiting for all the upstream appliances to come up to par.

I’ve personally experienced well more than once, an exceptional presentation which commanded a lot of ‘they are here’ using a pair of $4K retail FS quite popular so so speakers, once the source and power train was improved and obviously well in advance of the cost of the speakers. $8K source; $10K line pre; $7500 mono blocks; $$2K racks & stands; 7K wires and conditioners.

Naturally then, it was time to upgrade the speakers.

The predominate caveat in either philosophy will be the ‘synergy’, as previously stated. Finding a one size fits all speaker is nearly impossible. Especially if you have a spouse. One that lives with you. one that might even help out with the bills. Now there is the real caveat for acquiring ‘synergy’ in the system, and otherwise.

Shuffling in and out components is much easier than dragging around speakers, and as such, once one is satisfied with the front end, the room, and the speaker esthetics, the budget will pretty much dictate how deep into the speaker waters one will be able to wade. Meaning, speaker choices narrow rapidly once you have satisfied all the other areas of the rig… and perhaps the ‘relationship’, IMHO.

Were I ever to go down the ‘speakers’ first boulevard, they would have to be something I could live with for a very long time. A very long time indeed. Flexible3 enough as well to accommodate glass power too, not just Sand current.

The only path audiophiles hate to hear is to do their rooms first. Nobody likes that approach and it usually is the final piece of the puzzle that is addressed. I really feel if the room is addressed first, a lot of issues won’t be cropping up later or during the building process.

In any case, if you keep being smart, all roads lead to Rome… someday.

Be well, J

mjb, I can share my experience.  I have B&W 803N speakers, which have 89db sensitivity (I think), and are known to be "difficult to drive" and not "tube friendly".  I had a Primaluna Dialogue One Integrated Amp (38wpc) running them for three years.  A fellow forum member who lives near me came by one day.  He was astounded at how smooth and natural they sounded together.  I was very happy with the synergy, and I think they worked very well as a system.  So, I say poo-poo to those who say that towers have to be sensitive to work with tubes.  Maybe some tube amps... but not the PL.

From there, I liked the PL so much that I upgraded to the Dialogue Premium HP Integrated Amp.  Double the power, double the fun.  I love it, and people who come by to hear it agree.  It's great.  

So, to answer your original question, a Primaluna tube amp will run your tower speakers just fine.  I agree that you want to make sure the speakers and amp work well together, and you can determine this by taking your speakers to the store (I did), or by getting an in-home demo of the integrated amp.  Either way is a good thing to do so you can be more sure.  

And, further, yes, it will give you room to grow.  I upgraded from KT88 to KT120 in my Dialogue One, and later moved to the more powerful PL HP.  In that one, I upgraded from the stock EL34 to KT120s, and will soon move to KT150.  Plenty of room to grow.  In fact, much more room to grow than with any SS equipment I've owned.  All of these changes made my system incrementally better, without having to sell an expensive piece of gear to buy something else expensive.

WRT to the Primaluna, I have been on this journey for about 10 years now, and have been through several amps, preamps, and integrated amps.  I was very happy with the D-One, but got the bug to move up.  The PL HP is a definite keeper.  It's been a year and a half, and while I could consider other speakers, I see no reason to trade this integrated amp, ever.

Hope that's helpful.
sounderm- you had me a 'poo-poo' !!. thank you, that was exactly the analysis i was looking for.  I have read great things about the KT120s.  thanks again, enjoy your system.  
@oblgny , I would scratch Audio Breakthroughs from my list. It is a shadow of its' former self.
@mjb, Unless your are out on the twin forks, getting to Manhattan isn't exactly the hardest thing to do, especially if you want to audition before you buy.
B