Tube Integrated Amp to Drive Floorstanding Speakers?


forgive me, but i'm a relative newbie to audiophile concepts.  i am looking to build a 2 channel system for music that i can grow with.  currently i have a VPI Prime, Soundsmith MKIII cart.   I'm using a vintage kenwood KA-9100 driving Elac Uni F bookshelf speakers for my office.   

in the future, i plan on a listening room of 15x20, give or take.    I am intrigued by integrated tube amps - looking at all sorts, including PrimaLuna, VPI 299d, etc.   but these amps have lower WPC outputs.   I'd like to grow into a floorstanding set, something like the Monitor Gold, KEF R-series or PBS Imagine T3 range.    My tastes range from Classical to Classic Rock.   i do not blast music by any means.    Is an integrated tube amp (35-40 wpc) sufficient and will it leave room to grow?   ideally i'd like a home threater bypass should i decide to add TV that into the mix
mjb87062017

Showing 3 responses by blindjim


Hi!

Well, which way to paradise? Or how do I get to Oz from here and will I need the witches broom too?

80% of the music is made in the first 20 watts. Generally speaking.

Low power amps do a good job of limiting speaker choices. It does not mean however, it limits the end result.

To open the speaker door further, begin with a quality stable of 75 – 150wpc @ 8ohms,

Building a rig front to back, or back to front always seems the question. Back to front has apparently more subscribers than the front end to speakers devotees.

Regardless, either dedication will achieve the same result. Eventually. Unless….

The integrated amp has some power. Check out the BAT VK3000, or 3000SE. BAT used to provide an upgrade path for those who were unable or unwilling to go all in at the onset. Maybe they still do which makes the VK3000 a real upscale option as a very good starting INT arrangement.

VK-3000SE Amplifier
Number of Channels   2    
Output Power at 8Ω/4Ω   150W / 300W  
Frequency Response   2Hz to 180kHz
Inputs 2 XLR + 3 RCA  
Input Impedance   100 kΩ minimum each phase
HT pass thru
Volume control resolution   0.5db   Volume Control number of steps   140
Tube Complement   2 x 6H30  
Preamplifier Outputs   1 XLR balanced output
*XLR > RCA adapters here will allow for RCA amp usage.
Tape Output   1 RCA  
Speaker Outputs 2 pair gold-plated binding posts
Remote Control  
Standard   Options   Phono (MM/MC)
Color (black,silver/black)
Dimensions (WHD) Inches   19" x 5.75" x 15.5"   Weight   50 lbs

Add on an amp later. Go balanced front to back if desired, source to speakers.

Right off the speaker options are exponential with 150wpc @ 8, doubling to 300wpc @ 4. Regardless the room size. All but the most demanding panels will work well with this InT. bookshelfs, monitors, or FS, its your call.

I prefer the front to back pathway as it all begins with the signal in the first place.

Go out and buy the most speaker you can and essentially, your married to them and everything upstream has to meet their needs. Pricey squeakers will not perform optimally until the upstream components can feed them an equivalency in both POWER and Signal purity.

On the other hand, quite competent squeakers can and will deliver very satisfying accounts of themselves, provided what they are getting from the upstream items is at least decent or eventually, exceptional.

I’ve heard Reference level speakers sound ho hum, pretty good, very nice, with ho hum, pretty good, very nice front ends, but never have I heard top shelf speakers sound better than what is pushing them. EVER.

With the aforementioned front end plus top tier speakers, the most improvement in general was had from doing an upgrade to the source, or to the power train, and the best result came from both of these facets being improved upon. Although, improving upon the source device (S) gave the biggest bang for the buck. Thereafter, it was a matter of controlling the speakers with adequate power.

IMO, it seems a shame to have outstanding transducers sitting there, waiting for all the upstream appliances to come up to par.

I’ve personally experienced well more than once, an exceptional presentation which commanded a lot of ‘they are here’ using a pair of $4K retail FS quite popular so so speakers, once the source and power train was improved and obviously well in advance of the cost of the speakers. $8K source; $10K line pre; $7500 mono blocks; $$2K racks & stands; 7K wires and conditioners.

Naturally then, it was time to upgrade the speakers.

The predominate caveat in either philosophy will be the ‘synergy’, as previously stated. Finding a one size fits all speaker is nearly impossible. Especially if you have a spouse. One that lives with you. one that might even help out with the bills. Now there is the real caveat for acquiring ‘synergy’ in the system, and otherwise.

Shuffling in and out components is much easier than dragging around speakers, and as such, once one is satisfied with the front end, the room, and the speaker esthetics, the budget will pretty much dictate how deep into the speaker waters one will be able to wade. Meaning, speaker choices narrow rapidly once you have satisfied all the other areas of the rig… and perhaps the ‘relationship’, IMHO.

Were I ever to go down the ‘speakers’ first boulevard, they would have to be something I could live with for a very long time. A very long time indeed. Flexible3 enough as well to accommodate glass power too, not just Sand current.

The only path audiophiles hate to hear is to do their rooms first. Nobody likes that approach and it usually is the final piece of the puzzle that is addressed. I really feel if the room is addressed first, a lot of issues won’t be cropping up later or during the building process.

In any case, if you keep being smart, all roads lead to Rome… someday.

Be well, J

well, the 150s might be a solution!


soundermn
given you said a ??? set of KT 120s had an issue in the mids another set of ??? EL 34 did not demonstrate, have you been able to experiment with more than one brand of 120’s or 34s? and, or, different Eras of either?

different brands and or eras of tubes will definitely yield different results and or sonics, some quite noticeable, some more subtely. Even in a self biasing amp.

I only read a couple online reviews of the PL Dialog HP INt but liked what I read. Mostly. It has a large tube compliment on board which if one is prone to experiment with the wicked and magical world of tube rolling, can become quite expensive.
Six inputs and eight outputs? Hmmm.

When you left the 34s for the 120s, did you as well replace the 6SN7s, or before the switch of output tubes?

A note I saw in the reviews I read mentioned the longevity of tubes with a caveat: “provided the matching of the amp to speakers was optimal or close to it, tubes would last for years.” If not an optimal speaker & amp arrangement, the implication was tubes would have a quite shorter life span.

Sourcing tubes as NOS or current, especially given all the various subs and iterations of the same tube values can become quite involved. CED, Mullard, Jj, etc. And, ‘ ‘spensive. The output tubes aren’t the only ones which will alter the sonics either, merely the out put power.

I’ve owned several tube power amps and preamps. A couple had more tubes than the PL mentioned here. Self biased and manually biased. Stereo and mono blocks.

I’ve always gotten the impression, after a lot of tube rolling, makers deliver their products with what they feel is the best for a specific application, or range of speakers. As audio nuts we try to expand that range, or simply ignore it and attempt to feed speakers which are in fact not the best fit, but what we have an investment in already on hand.

I truly get it. Been there and done that too.

Having owned several BW models, all of them enjoyed more than double digit watts to perform well across the entire bandwidth. All were of the nautilus variety and below it.

Sometimes this ‘make it work’ with in house speakers theme isn’t always the best path, or we did not get the right or better, or even the best power amp for them…. Despite the notion we can up the out put power of the amp with altering the output tubes later on. It becomes still harder a thing to do, if the amp does not have different transformer taps, 2, 4, 6, or 8ohm for various speaker configs. Sometimes, even if it does have various output taps, getting it hooked to the speaker with an amenable or amp friendly impedance graph can be daunting.

Its always about the proposed speaker’s ‘impedance curves’ more than the speakers sensitivity the amp will see and have to deal with that provides the chance for an optimum amp to speaker connection, in bandwidth reproduction, control, and volume.

With a pair of Dodd 120wpc monos (running ultralinear) & Silverline Sonata IIIs a supposed 93db 8ohm speaker which did not dip below 4 ohms, I initially hooked it onto the 4 ohm taps to be safe. The sound was velvety smooth. 300B-ish sounding. Changing onto the 8 ohm tamps, was night and day different. Immensely better control and bass reproduction and slam. Better across the board sonically. Far more musically detailed.

To a point, in the volume levels. In a 14ft W x 21ft L arched ceiling fully enclosed room. It would play loudly for sure with a little ZZ, AC/DC, etc! As the volume escalated the bottom end thinned out though. A sub search was in order and done thereafter. Issue resolved.

The PL HP as I read it has an output for a sub. That might solve the lower range desire without more tube rolling and expense therein. Especially in an ‘opened’ non enclosed room… and if acquiring or trading out speakers is not an option.

Personally, I liked very much the accounts of the reviews on the PL D HP I read, and may well get one for my office next year, as I have some very amp friendly speakers on hand already which could be quite happy with less than 40wpc. We’ll see.

If the fun knob is not turned up, tons of amps work with tons of speakers in many rooms. Twisting the fun button up, and everything begins to show what’s up with the pairing. Every time.
Hopefully these experiences and insights can be helpful. Good luck.


I saw info on a Wells Audio Int - "Majestic'. SS with all the amenities for $3500. a strong damping factor too so less eff speakers, and or dipping IMp curves could be addressed well so the bottom end remains solid.

voiced closely to what tube amps yeild harmonically.
Just a thought. be well.