Tonearm recommendation

Dear fleib/chakster and friends: That advise that we need a high mass for a low compliance cartridges has many " roads " surrounded it.

Mantain frequency resonance value, between tonearm/cartridge, in the range of 8- hz to 10 hz is something that many of us always are looking and is something all of us want it.

In theory that’s the frequerncy range we have to look for and I say in theory. In theory that can gives the cartridge7tonearm better tracking and mantain at minimum bass resonances that has a huge influence in all the frequency spectrum during LP playback. I’m not questioning that theory.

Now, what happen during playing because the theory is on static way where the cartridge is not ridding the LP grooves.

Everything change during playing because the cartridge has to fight not only with the movements in the LP grooves but with the excentricities of the LP and its micro and macroscopic surface LP waves.
The theory of that cartridge/resonance frequency is that to low frequency like 4-6 hz cabn be exited and coincide with vibrations/resonances generated by the TT/cartridge and then can make that in some areas of the LP surface the cartridge/tonearm " jump "/mistracking.

Well, how the real tonearm designers fixed that real problem?, using engineering concepts and the main one that even today is a must in any tonearm design was to damp the tonearm to mantain in effective way those " terrible " resonances that always affect directly to what we are listening in the full frequency spectrum.

In the golden Audio magazine times ( 80’s. ) B.Pisha made a full review of the LOMC Ortofon MC 2000 ( I think 1984. ) that for every one is a learning review ( including for today professional reviewers. ):

things are that this cartridge is a heavy weight high compliance one. Pisha mounted in all Technics TT ( SP 10 ) and S-shaped tonearm and he measured during playback a resonance frequency of 5hz in between cartridge/tonearm and he started to listen diferent LPs with no problems at all and he said that because he can’t believe that the cartridge/tonearm with that so low resonance frequency could works so good he measured for second time and confirm that that resonance frequency was that low. He measured during plasyback a dynamic cartridge compliance of 31 cu!

That combination tracked totally clean all the cannon shots in the Telarc 1812 ( and other torture recordings. ) where you can find frequencies so low as 8 hz!!!

So what was happening? all that gone against the theory and believes of all audio experts, why?:

thing are that that Technics tonearm ( 250/100. ) has a self damping mechanism that just works marvelous, a mechanism that even today can be an envy for any single tonearm designer.

That is real science in tonearm design but Technics was and is part of the electronic gigant japanese corporation: Matushita, where the research and work is not made it for one person but for dozens of them where there is no resources limitations.

There are other old examples of great engineering tonearm designs as the Lustre GST-801 and others.

As I said the all metal FRs are because of that metal a natural/self resonace/vibrations generator device but along that is a NON DAMPED DESIGN!!!! go figure.

There is other critical problems with high mass and long tonearm designs:

The main target in a cartridge is to follow/ride perfect the LP grooves and for that the cartridge tracking is a constant in horizontal/vertical fast movements where the tonearm has to react in the same faster way to those cartridge movements.
Now, during playback exist an inertia to the cartridge/tonearm to the center/inside the LP that inertia goes per se against the cartridge ride and the tonearm needs to control ( but has not that control in any way. ) that inertia movement/force and here as higher is the dynamic mass in a tonearm as higher is the dificult to change that inside inertia when the cartridge rides to the opposite path.
Always is easy to " stop " a lighter dynamic mass than a high mass device.


So and IMHO we need very good damped tonearms with no high effective mass.

You can think what you want and stay happy with what you want but those are facts. I learned and time to time all of us can do it if we want to do it.

regards and enjoy t5he music,
R.

Because it's made by someone who actually knows something about audio instead of someone who is a pretender....

Still there seems to be no limit on pricing of these products. It has really no relevance to the actual cost or research. I mean it isnt a lifestyle product which has to be priced into a "untouchable" territory

Dear friends: The advise to the audio community is to stay away from heavy mass, all metal and not WELL damped tonearm designs: vintage or today ones.

Regards and enjoy rthe music,
R.

Dear fleib: It has to do with all the situation on hand.

For me is 8 hz to 10 hz the ideal resonance frequency. As a fact there is no rule about the precise frequency range.

""" No, it’s not about static. There is no resonance with static as the name implies. We’re talking about dynamic compliance, arm mass, and resultant resonance or affect on performance. """

sorry that I can’t explainit well. What I want it is to say that for that happen exactly as the resonance formula gives us we need a perfect LP recording with perfect LP surface. Yes the resonance frequency in a spring works with that formula, my mistake in the way to explain it.
Now, you really don’t know wich is the real tonearm effective mass in the tonearm because depend on the tonearm counterweight position.

""" No one is talking about that. """

maybe you did nt but the target to achieve that resonance frequency is to stay " save " from those frequency additional exicitemet.

Maybe I did it when I was a kid but that’s what happen with a metal non damped tonearm, it function as an additional resonance/vibration/distortions generator. Like it or not.

Maybe you are running that kind of distortion generator.

No it was not an anecdote but a proved fact by some one that knows a lot more than you and me together or at least than me.

Btw, B.Pisha was not a " simp’le " professional audio reviewer, he was a way talent engeneer that between other things created an alternative to Löfgren, Baerwald or Stevenson geometry set up tonearm/cartridge parameters that was reconized for the audio engeeering societies.

Anyway, what I think is that you have nothing on hand against my statement on: " heavy ,all metal non-damped tonearm designs " and only look where on my posts I made it a mistake and put " light " on that mistake.

IMHO, could be better that you can prove how is that a heavy and long all metal and non damped tonearm helps to improve the quality cartridge performance satisfiying all the cartridge needs and mantaining all the generated distortions at minimum.
This is what al of use like to hear from yu: a real contribution and not only to say: no, that’s the easy way. The right way is to say no and prove it showing why not.
At the same time we all are waiting why that tonearm is a good team for the Koetsu Rosewood and Denon 103R becvause you forgot to explain it: could you? because was your advise to wrm0375.

You are welcomed to do it. As I always say: we all need to learn and if I’m wrong then I can rectify about. Waiting for your in deep explanation with first hand experiences about.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.