Subwoofer budget max $700: new vs used, brand?

Rabco,

I'm saying that my mediocre (compared to, say, JL or probably SVS) Velodyne SPLRs sound great when properly integrated with a good controller. They sounded pretty ratty when I tried to dial 'em in by ear. My take is that okay subs can sound very good, if you set them up correctly. I will never again attempt to integrate subs by ear - it's hard enough WITH the SMS! With the SMS, at least you'll eventually get it done right, but it will take some time & effort. By ear.....

As to multiple seating locations:

The Velodyne optimizes for 1 listening position. Audyssey makes a similar system ($2500 and up) that optimizes for multiple spots and multi-channel. No surprise that they also make a cheaper OEM product that's included in a bunch of AVRs and Pre/Pros from Integra, Dennon, Marantz, etc. This system is full range room correction - so you have to like that idea. As a practical matter, the stand alone box is pricey and the OEM product probably means replacing your preamp, pre/pro or AVR and that likely blows your budget.

Another route is from SVS which now markets a stand-alond Audyssey box for bass correction only. However, -and kinda strangely - since it's designed to take a subwoofer (LFE) input, it can't utilize the x-over function in the SVS subs. That is, it must take the LFE output from an av pre/pro, AVR, or external active x-over. It's also $700 or so and also presents budget issues for you.

In summation, no matter which sub I use, I will go for a controller, too, whether Velo's SMS, Audyssey, or some other brand. It's also the advice I'd offer you or anyone else - just based on my own personal experience.

Good Luck,

Marty

PS If you do decide to go with the SMS, be aware that you need a monitor with S video input to use the room analyzer. Since it sounds like your set-up is AV, shoulodn't be any issue.

Bob is right on. I have the REL mini 108Q and it is great, to 30 Hz. It is a sealed design and is for smaller rooms. I have two Hsu subs, both great and integrate well with music. Your asymmetrical room is an advantage with subs because that may lessen room modes. I just bought a VTF-1 in Rosewood. It is a ported design. It is almost flat to 25 Hz, $550 plus shipping, 30 day return policy, and the finishes are truly beautiful. It is a great consideration. Good luck in your quest!

Bob has a point here. Trying to do both pieces at your budget is definitely a bit of a stretch. However, if I were looking for best performance for the $, I'd probably try to stretch, anyway. Here's why:

Warning: the words "slow" and "fast" are used in the following paragraphs as they are commonly seen on these threads. I'm not saying such characterizations are valid, just commonplace among those with opposing subwoofer philosophies. We'll call these 2 groups A) the "slow is okay" camp and B) the "distorted is okay" camp.

The first focuses on high output & low distortion. These subs are often ported designs. The downside is that such designs are often underdamped and strike some as "slow". The other side usually prefers highly damped subs and looks to sealed designs. These "fast" subs generally produce lots of distortion at low frequencies (relative to the ported designs).

The specs "distortion' and "group delay" (respectively) that reflect these performance paramaters are hotly debated. Each side points out that poor performance on the "other side's spec" is usually inaudible - even if the numbers look pretty awful. My point is that I tend to agree with BOTH sides. My subs perform relatively poorly on both specs, but sound GREAT! My take away is that most well regarded subs of EITHER design probably perform "well enough" on both specs, even if the numbers look ugly.

The further upshoot is that poor performance (and the vast majority of sub set-ups I've heard would qualify as "poor performers" to me) is probably due to something else - like poor integration. My experience bears this out. As my measured frequency response near the x-over improved, the system sounded better. Since I didn't expect this result when I started the experiment (long story there), I tend to put a lot of weight on this result. That's why I'd go controller first.

OTOH, you also have to remember, that you may hear hear things I don't/can't. People hear things differently, one to the next. Just because high distortion at 25hz or lots of group delay is completely inaudible to me, that doesn't mean it's inaudible to everyone! So, beware, YMMV.

One day, I'll replace my subs with better performers. The SVS SB12+ that Bob recommends actually performs pretty well on group delay AND astoundingly well on distortion (talking specs only here!). For the money, I agree that they would appear to represent unusual value and I'll probably do that - even if the measured performance benefits aren't dramatically audible.

In the end, I suspect there's a benefit to owning better performing subs. It's just that I KNOW there's a great benefit to well integrated subs. Hence, my inclination to go controller first. Other thoughtful posters obviously feel somewhat differently.

Marty

A powered James EMB-1000 or possibly an EMB-1200 used would meet your price target. Very musical subs. I would stack either of them up against much more expensive subs than are mentioned in this thread....I had a 1000 now a 1200.