Which is the top dog in "subs"?

I'm deciding between a pair of Velodyne DD-18s or JL Audio Fathom 113s. I've read the articles published in Stereophile and Absolute Sound.

Ease of setup is important to my system. The Velodyne setup appears to be SOTA for subs with ease of use and setup procedures. All parameters can be adjusted with the remote control. You can view the setup via video out to a TV monitor. However the high pass filter is set at 80hz. Is this a problem? Is this a musical sub? Will is blend with my salons? Larry Greenhill has never mentioned using two DD-18s so how would they compare with my the Fathoms 113s. also Velodyne makes one use single ended instead of balanced interconnects. Also Velodynes software will only accomodate mono subs working as master and slave.

The Fathom is a newer sub, with some great ideas and is reputed to sound incredible. The problem with it seems to be no remote control, difficult setup, not as easy as the Velodyne, and would require a crossover such as the Bryson 10b as an additional expense.

One could buy the Fathoms, and Velodynes setup kit the SMS-1 wich would put the setup procedure even with the DD-18s. I still would have to switch from balanced interconnects to single ended.

I know I now own Revel Subs but one has died via a shipping problem, and they are discontinued and I have a chance to upgrade to new subs.

The application would be for two channel only.

So what do you guys think, has anyone listend to the two subs with an optimized setup?
Another point that I forgot to mention in my email is that the Velo will accomodate both hi-level and lo-level inputs.

This was very important to me as I get much better integration when using the speaker level inputs. The sub takes on the signature of your amp which allows for greater coherency with the mains.
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Watch Dog? Is that a Subwoofer named by wilson? Not sure, but I guess its made by wilson and expensive so it must be the Top dog!
I'm sure a pair of DD-18s will satisfy.
However, the thought of two Martin-Logan Decents is frightening.
Woof woof.
I have owned revel subs and it is a no contest--the jl audio is better and I have a friend who sells both the velodyne and jl audio and has compared them both and again the jl audio is better --I have 2 jl audio 113 for 2ch and one for my ht system--they are very easy to set up --the easiest sub I have ever used and the most musical any ? feel free to email me---rich
I'd take a look at the independent subwoofer tests here:


And then also consider SVS + the Velodyne SMS-1; you'll be able to use balanced connections. PB13-Ultra
I agree with RAS. I use a JL Audio F113 with B&W S800's. Easy as can be to set up. I do not know what you are using for your mains but I run mine full range so no active crossover is needed.

The other question is why do you need a remote for your sub? It seems like you will use it once to set it up, then take the batteries out, put it in a palstic bag and store it. I never adjust my sub. Set it and forget it.
Thanks for all your comments.

I'm thinking of a pair of Fathoms 113s along with the purchase of the Velodyne SMS 1 might be the ticket.

However how important to the sound is Velodyne's servo control system? I don't believe the Fathoms has this and it does seem to be an advantage important.

Also I've had several people in the industry comment that a pair of Velodyne DD-15s will be a better match for my room then a pair of DD18s. Some think that the DD18s will over power the room causing many acoustic problems.
All I want is the most musical, easy to setup, accurate, subs I can find that will mate with my two channel system.
I know the Fathoms must be good, but Velodyne has been around for a long time.
Are the Fathoms the sub flavor of the month?
KRELL .........DUH


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The DD-18 will go deeper and with greater ease. They are very musical and do not over power my room.

I previously used a single DD-15, but once I went to the stereo DD-18s, the bass no longer sounded forced. It is simply there, in an effortless and limitless way. It's the best way I can describe it.

Mind you, setup and placement is critical. Replace the standard feet with some decent brass spikes as well.

Good luck.
The top dog in subs are KCS 31.5 in, and KCS bass horns. A hi-excursion driver with massive power in small cabinet that needs room +floor bondery reinforcement to produce bass. Is a sub optimal design but most all sub manufacters offer this because its cheaper to manufacter more affordable to ship easy for purchaser to house without WAF problems. But if you want bass done right than avoid the floor cube with hi-excursion driver. Much detail is lost to the massive excursions of such designs why sub bass for music use is mostly sub optimal. KCS designs use low excursion drivers these reveal hidden bass details that are lost to cube on floor designs. Sure KCS bass systems are massive but why compramise your bass reproduction.