Ha, of course... but im talking about the speakers themselves |
Try Lyngdorf 2170 at your home. This looks interesting, however im enjoying my Vac Tube amp too much... maybe a similar processor only to go in the Tape loop of the My tube preamp? Just the "Room Perfect" type thing? Does that exist in any form? Although that would be my last resort as i want to stay analog for Turntable. Digital Playback is fine...Its digital to begin with... |
Thanks!
Appreciate all the Acoustic ideas and concepts. Thats where im trying to get here.
Not buying more cables. No cable is going to give you bass. maybe .5 of a db at some frequency is all it might do... even that would be miracle.
Coupling and placement, which is for free (sorry Audiophiles that it don’t cost thousands to move a speaker... how boring ;-)
So spikes or Feet or Flat speaker on the floor with nothing ? |
Spikes = better imaging and clarity, "tighter" bass, but not
necessarily "more" bass. Ime best to experiment with positioning
BEFORE you install the spikes. Audiokinesis. You say that on spikes better image and clarity, bit you don't say of full contact with floor, with no footing at all enhances bass. Any experience to share there? Thanks |
Yes? isn’t the direct connection to the floor, full on, amplifying somewhat the lows? Would isolation not kill that acoustic amplification? |
Cables are the last 1%, as we say in the studio world. Im way more concerned with the other 99% |
Why would a cable EQ So much and how? Are there resistors? an eq network in there... The most a cable can do is degrade not enhance... |
the speakers in case are VSM's but the question is general about Acoustics and coupling. |
I have always run my mains full range and augmented the low freq with a sub I do not think the issue is in the Sub Bass area, but rather in the low mids and bass, from around 200hz to 50hz. Its like a hole. I would have thought its my room that has standing waves there, but it is not since other speakers easily reproduce this area with authority... sometimes even too much... |
Some Tube Rolling today also helped. Old Mullards in the 12ax7 preamp and Old Amperex Britain EL34’s in place of the JJ KT77’s in the Power output section.
More pleasant and less harsh sounding overall. a bit more balanced. |
That is your mistake to think that cables are the last 1%.
You will never know until you try ., but i am done trying to convince you
100% no glare with Purist Audio Dominus
100% musicality With the risk of sounding patronizing(im not- i promise) after 30+ years of making Records at some of the best studios ever i can tell you that : A. Cables are 1% as long as they are decent quality and not super cheap stuff that really degrades the integrity of the electric signal. B. The best recordings you listen to through your $5,000 per interconnect were made on a $20 Mogami Mic cable... so.... |
OK- So I took off the footing altogether, no spikes or any type of feet, just speakers on my wood floor bare and flush.
Already big improvement. The spiking is good for fat sounding speakers, not for lean sounding ones, in my case. |
Just to add to this:
Some Speaker and Amp companies charge thousands more than their designs should cost because the wire harness inside is made with thousands of dollars in wire. That is a selling point and an opportunity to pocket a lot of extra dough.
They should offer the same product made with simple wire as an option that costs the same minus the wire price tag. See what people buy when they compare the 2 options...;)
Hoever, for the same money you could buy a much better design, with better "Important" components, handmade point to point, much better sounding that uses standard high quality that costs a fraction of the boutique wire.
Now for the consumer who, during the day, is a doctor or lawyer or accountant, and knows no better than reading forums, he’ll go and spend the top dollar for the lesser design, lesser sounding product because of the "Wire" while he could get the same if not better sound from a simply better designed and made product with less expensive wire.
Now you tell me which product you would buy? |
The ATC 25ASL PRO has a 7” woofer And The low mids to liws are very very full. Easy for a 7” woofer, should be easy for a6.5”. I have no issues with the very low area. It just aounds empty and hollow in the low mids. Its not the size, its the voicing. |
Thanks Bob- Could you tell me please how many db's of extra Bass, Bell or Shelf, and at which Frequency center point or Corner(depends on curve type)?
Thanks! |
If i were you id go read Dawkins for evidence of lack of god therefor...;) but your taking us to a whole different topic here my good man;) beliefe is not something i need to share with anyone and it is as personal as personal can be- non transferable. Its evidence i need when it comes to frequency response...
I want to see an eq curve of several cables done by the same test on the same equipment in the same session done by a third party non affiliated, I do not care for what a manufacturer publishes, as much as i don’t believe Enron...;) |
Ordered the Schiit Loki 4 band EQ.
Maybe -1 or -2 db at 2k and +1 or +2 db boost at 400 or 20hz(which actually starts at 300hz) would correct the system to sound more to my liking... Ill report back...
Trying to eq with several $5,000 cables sounds a bit far from my definition of sanity... |
An exceptional way to mediocre sound is to ignore aftermarket cables, and or stay with "affordable" cables to avoid comparisons and advancement. Having worked with dozens of brands of cables over decades not only are cables responsible for far, far more than 1% of a home system’s sound, but the selection of cables can literally make or break the components and speaker’s performance.
YMMV thanks Douglas. Well, whatever huge differences in cables ot should be measurable. Would you provide a chart of different wire and the Measured difference they made? Otherwise its like asking someone why he believes in god. Belief has nothing to do with this topic- Its not a serious argument. I need data. There are more golfen ear people claim its a marketing scam(to get tons of money out of rich people who think there is a real differemce) than people who actually use it.. so the jury is more than out on this one. i hear claims like “oh i got so much more bass with cardass this or that”. Which frequency? By how much? Bell? Shelf? and the claims of larger stereo field... do they mean more phase issues...? |
Schiit Loki Looks cheap enough to give it a try! |
So you liked the speaker flush on the floor or with spikes at the end or isoacoustics? its not clear; And What was the difference you heard?
Flush on floor=more low, Spikes= Tight? not sure what that means... "Less Low mid" tight?
Thanks,
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Hey Douglas. I appreciate your commentals and I apologize if i sound like i am rejecting ideas that i may have not tried. You are right about that.
That said, eq’ing with wire type is crazy as far as cost and lack of real data. You gotta give me that.
But i hear ya. Yoi may as well be correct, but for me id probably start woth buying the correct components for the sound i seek, ie speakers and amp, than maybe a little eq for correction and only than, if i win the lottery, id bring home 20k worth of wire for a db or two here and there. But thats me and im not saying its the best way. Its my way.
Awaiting shipping of the little schiit(duh?) eq. If that dint do it bye bye speakers. Move on.
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Interesting, How is the 8545 mod is done exactly? |
By the way, as far as amps go, which would give more "Warm" "Full" sound (100hz-400hz) and a bit more forgiving, mellower high mids (2khz-4khz)?
SET? OTL? Push pull? Out of those any particular one to match well with the merlins? they do not need a lot of power. I can get by with 30wpc easily at my listening enviournment, and the Impedance is not suppose to fall bellow 7ohm if im correct. |
Awesome information Duke! Thanks.
It does sound also like Bi Amping can maintain the nature of the speakers somewhat but alter the relationship between tweeter and woofer. Would you say that is a better way to go than EQ'? |
Interesting... Ill skip of course, but interesting information. Thanks. |
Yes, a little bit of EQ goes a long way, Im also considering Bi Amping the speakers. If i gain control over the tweeter and the woofer separately I can balance them a little warmer, since these speakers ARE remarkable as far as fidelity and space and air and detail, its just that i need some more chest/belly to feel happy. |
Hey- Suerly chatting- never flaming. Sometimes there is a "venting" mood, but that's neglectable;) I appreciate your participation.
As far as Bi-Amping, here is the thing- These Merlins are total magic in certain respects that im afraid to lose at this point.
To remedy what i consider their weak point(Low Mid and bass fullness) would be ideal for me, so maybe bi amping would do it,
Selling and buying speakers until i find the right one might be too costly and cumbersome(shipping speakers!!)... So i think id like to try that little $150 EQ first, then, if that screws up the phase(which EQ's can do) ill try Bi Amping in order to control the woofer and tweeter separately. If that doesnt work either ill consider a different speaker. I think that would be the "sanest" way, as much as this search can be sane from the get go,..;) |
My ATC 25ASL Pro at my recording studio have a 7" Woofer with low mid and bass to die for- HUGE... And they are reference speakers- not some Hyped up Cheapos (probably the most proven and used in the industry)... So i must conclude Its the voicing not the size.
You may be talking about Subs.. for that you need a bigger driver for sure. |
;) starts with an A and ends with E?... What about the VAC 30/30 or 70/70? any thoughts on that? |
Thanks again!
So amp wise, just to get closer to my destination, what would you recommend? Im ready to upgrade from my VAC Avatar integrated Push Pull. |
Im aware of the virtues of the Avatar so not in a hurry to part with it, however im speculating about my ability to tailor my sound mote precisely with separates. Especially a pre amp for tone. But gotta start looking at the correct power amp for the job first.
What tonal balance was your friend after?
as evident from my post here im looking to trade transparency for weight warmth and body. So im not sure how the OTLs mentioned behave realy in that respect. How does the high damping translate to the Merlins? |
HAHA! I will! It is true. Getting it tomorrow and ill report back. Are you using it? |
Ya man. That's the spirit. Killing it now with "Rite Of Spring" with Claudio Abaddo. Agreed. 'Nuff said;-) |
GGC, so what was that power cable that woke up your system? |
@rauliruegas:
The Joule amps totally changed the tonal balance and clarity in all freqs. So for now i am getting used to that. Its not to say the Merlins are not seemingly bright speakers, I say seemingly because i think it is a perception built on past experience, but they do not hurt me now as they may have before. Its a journey. I also realize that hearing so clearly can hurt you at first, just like what happens to your eyes when the light is up after a long time in darkness... let the eyes get used to all the detail...;)
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The more i listen the more i realize that there is a specific volume and sweet spot of sitting where they sound just unbelievable, above that volume they begin to sound harsh to my ears. Same for leaving the sweet spot.
Also they just want to play great full sounding recordings, they make any recording that is not stellar seem naked and harsh... Listening to the last Bootsy Collins this past hour. WOW, sounds amazing! earlier Steely Dan sounded terrible and thin (go figure).. i guess you need music that respects bass on these...;)
Also classical sounds really good on these. Pop and rock for the most part sounds harsh.
What im thinking is that these speakers are probably so pure that all the added high end that is associated with pop/rock studio production is very unnatural and unrealistic(I know because i mix for a living...) just don't translate well on the Merlins, while Classical and Jazz and Funk which is really amazing players recorded really well and generating a very balanced frequency range translate great.
This is where these speakers shine. They are not for originally thin recordings, they just don’t "help" them as other speakers do. And thats a good thing and a bad thing...
Point is- i come from music, not form love of sound reinforcement necessarily, so i cant choose music for my speakers, i must choose speakers for my music. Its not like im going to listen to music that my speakers like. That would be quite sick. Half my library does not translate well at this time... And i plan on listening to my library.,
So we’ll see, because im in love with them on music that sounds good on them.
Might have to insert a good EQ probably and adjust by record... just like i do when i mix at the studio... |
Well they do according to Steteophile measurements but i have no issue with that area as i have a sub. My issue is low mids and higher bass. The “body”, not the “Floor”... |
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Hey Raul, tone is much much better. Overall warmth that i was after is much closer to the mark. At the same time the Merlins have their character which is still on the bright side. Still lacking bit if "Body" for lack of a better word.
At this time im running from DAC with variable gain directly to the Joule amps.
I should get the Joule preamp this weekend. Hopefully this takes me a step closer.
Im open to more ideas. Don't hold back...Its a journey...;) |
Hey Raul, tone is much much better. Overall warmth that i was after is much closer to the mark. At the same time the Merlins have their character which is still on the bright side. Still lacking bit if "Body" for lack of a better word.
At this time im running from DAC with variable gain directly to the Joule amps.
I should get the Joule preamp this weekend. Hopefully this takes me a step closer.
Im open to more ideas. Don't hold back...Its a journey...;) |
@rauliruegas
there is something about them that i really love very much. I will play around with my other components and room a bit more before changing them. |
Thanks! BTW loving the sound now after upgrading Amps, Preamp, and cables! |
