Vienna Mozart Grand or Beethoven Baby Grand

Anyone compared these two? I am trying my friends old Mozart (the pre-Grand model) and its really good but considering stepping up to the Beethoven Baby Grand. I have a Moon I-3RS amp, goes really well with the Mozarts.

Also the Hifi News Aug 08 review of the Beethoven Baby Grand suggests it could be a demanding amp load as the minimum impedance gets down to 1.5ohms (average is 4ohms). Does anyone know what this means? My amp, the Simaudio moon I-3RS is rated 200W at 2ohm - could the speakers damage the amp when the impedance gets low?
Thanks for your help in advance.
Hi Acdvd, I am an admitted fan of Vienna speakers. . . they are true musical instruments! It is also true that they enjoy being driven relatively stoutly for best results. Your Moon I-3RS should be fine. . . with its damping factor of 200 you can expect a slight flaring/warming of the bass, which you may actually find to be quite pleasing. If I recall correctly I heard them a couple of times driven by a Primare integrated whose power rating was similar to your Moon. G.
I wouldn't worry about any damage to the amp. Most amps have an overload detection circuit that will shut the amp down if it sees too much current drain. I don't think you should have any trouble.
I would contact the manufacturer for this question and see where the conversation leads you too.
When building my secondary system I was looking cloely at VA Baby Grands. The best price I could find new was $3250. I absolutely loved the sound of these speakers. I did not care for the Mozart Grand - flabby bass. I ened up goig with a pair of Dynaudio Audience 52SE, Stand4 and a Sub-20A. Both speakers being closeouts so I got a great deal. For the speaker package & stands I paid less than $2000.
I compared and bought the Baby Grands. They're full range down to 30hz and should work fine with your amp; however, more power is useful to get the last nth out of them. They're very musical.

Hi Miner42, with what amp did you drive the Mozarts? The bass of Vienna speakers in general can sound warm/bloated when driven by amplifiers with a low damping factor. Guido
How can you tell what the damping factor is? Is that the wattage at 2ohms?

The original Mozart non-Grand had a minimum impedance of about 3.5ohms measured. Not sure what the Grand version's equivalent number?

Also does anyone out there know how the original (non-Grand) Mozart compares to the Mozart Grand in terms of sonics.
The damping factor for an amp is usually published as such in the specifications of an amplifier. If you can't find the info on the manufacturer's web site, please get in touch directly with your dealer or with the manufacturer itself.
I checked the amp specs - damping factor is >200. Would you say this is low or high? Is the higher the factor the cleaner the bass?
Acdvd, a damping factor of 200 is fairly reasonable. . . higher than that of my old Rowland Model 7 mono amp behemoths. You can expect a very slight flaring of the bass, which in fact you are likely to find rather pleasing to the ears. . . but should not encounter any obvious problems. Regardless, remember that speakers need to be broken in. . . a lot, lest they sound sterile. Guido
The amp the dealer was using was a 200w/ch B&K amp & pre.
Miner, which model of B&K was the dealer using?
The amp I believe was the reference 200.2 S2; not sure about the preamp
Miner, the B&K reference 200.2 S2 apparently has a stated damping factor of 450, which should be quite good for driving the Mozarts without bloat. I honestly have no idea what the problem may have been, except perhaps for equipment not well broken in.
i have heard both the beethoven baby grands and the mozart grands. (i bot the beethovens). they r totally diff speakers sound wise and technically. the mozart is a 2.5 design w/diff crossover. i think the baby grands sound much better. however, the baby grands are very finicky about room placement, and if not set up correctly, u will get bass boom. yes, the impedance can drop pretty low on the beethovens, so b careful. i m not sure about your i-3. i have the i-5 and i really shud upgrade to a more powerful amp.
Good point Dlee. The VA Baby Grands have a rear-firing, which need to engage the rear wall, BUT moving them just a fraction of an inch can produce a bass node or hump that'll spoil the overall balance and the mids. Fortunately, only a little patience is needed to get it right. Better yet, in the US, if you buy from a Sumiko dealer they'll set it up for you using their amazing Master Set method and you'll hear exactly how good things can get.

Do you mean the closer you are to the wall the less bass node/hump you will get?

How far should they be from the rear wall?

08-16-08: Acdvd asked:
"Do you mean the closer you are to the wall the less bass node/hump you will get?

How far should they be from the rear wall?"

It's coomplicated. My left speaker is 16" from the rear wall, but the right is 14" due to irregularity in the shape of the wall behind it. If you move them closer the bass humps up and the midrange gets muddy. If you pull them a few inches further out the same thing happens at slightly different frequencies.

Before Soundings HiFi did my Master Set for me I'd pulled them several feet out into the room, because I had trouble getting both solid bass and clean midrange with great imaging. I was getting clean midrange and great imaging put giving up a ton of bass. Also, though I didn't realize it, the mids were "shouty", causing me to run at levels several dB lower than I do after the Master Set.

If you really interested in this, see the separate thread about the Sumiko Master Set. There's a link in my profile. If you set yours at 16" I'd consider that only a rough starting point.

I suggest you give a call to Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio. He is the man. I have my Baby Beethovens hooked up to a Primaluna Dialogue two integrated amp at around 40 tube watts per channel. Upscale Audio has this combo in their main demo room. I could not live without it after I heard it. In fact, Jim Hannon from the absolute sound wrote of the 2007 CES report "The smaller Vienna Acoustics
Beethoven Baby Grand ($3500), in the PrimaLuna room,
was one of the best-sounding, value-oriented systems I heard at the show, driven by PrimaLuna’s Prologue 2 integrated amplifier"
Vienna Accoustics wrote in owners manual "our speakers demonstrate outstanding sonic results with a variety of amplifier types. They feature a combination of high efficiency and gentle impedence curves that allow them to be used with either solid state or tube electronics."
I hope that helps
Hi Beerad, I am delighted to learn that Baby Grands work well with Primaluna amps. . . I have heard the Prologue at PSCIALLI's place and thought it was an amazing sounding amp in its own right. G.