Speaker Imaging - Do you hear a line, or do you hear an arc??


Hi Everyone,

I am not trolling, I genuinely am interested in your experiences.


When listening to a system you feel images well, how do you perceive the sound stage? Do you perceive it as a rectangular space on which the speakers sit, or does it sound like an arc, going further back towards the middle?


Please give examples with music and speakers if you have the time.


Thanks,
Erik
erik_squires

Depends on the recording. The Boult recording of The Planets on EMI contains enormous depth, the tympani, snare drum, and triangle sounding much further away than the wall behind my planars. Way, way, way at the back of the orchestra, up on risers (line-source loudspeakers do height well).

The closely-mic'ed voices, acoustic guitars, dobro, mandolin, fiddle, and upright bass on Bluegrass albums sound right in front of me---reach out and touch 'em, as they should. Most Pop albums sound artificially-created, as they should. Plate reverb trails in the channel opposite the voice or instrument! "Imagining" on most Rock recordings is absolutely contrived; each sound is on a separate channel, a stereo pan-pot used to place the sound somewhere between hard-left and hard-right. Reverb is also used to create the illusion of depth.

How can a recording contain depth, true imaging---a soundstage, when there was none to begin with, and the mics are mere inches away from the instruments? Back to mono! ;-) 

Of course, as is the case with every aspect of stereo reproduction/quality, everything depends on the recording(GIGO). Then too; there’s a wide variety of microphone techniques, not to mention live, studio, and other variables. The following provide tests, with which one may determine whether their system actually images, or reproduces a soundstage, as recorded/intended. ie: On the Chesky sampler/test CD; David explains in detail, his position on the stage and distance from the mics, as he strikes a tambourine(Depth Test). The LEDR test tells what to expect, if your system performs well, before each segment. The Chesky CD contains a number of tests, in addition to the LEDR. Digital download verson: (https://cheskyrecords.bandcamp.com/album/chesky-records-jazz-sampler-audiophile-test-vol-1 ) The CD version, of the Chesky Jazz Sampler, Vol 1: (https://www.amazon.com/Chesky-Records-Sampler-Audiophile-Compact/dp/B000003GF3) An online resource: (https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php ) BTW; The shape of your ears’ pinnae is also a variable, regarding your ability to perceive images/locate sounds. An old article, from Stereophile, regarding the LEDR test: (https://www.stereophile.com/features/772/index.html ) That article also mentions some other possible impediments, to a system’s imaging abilities. Of course; all that’s only for those interested in finding out, if their systems(and/or ears/brains) are up to the task, given a recording that contains the info. These articles may interest some: (https://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1286awsi/index.html) & (https://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/390awsi/index.html) btw: With my setup, I hear no line or arc. Just whatever’s on the recording. On the good ones; I’m there.   
Knowing how a full orchestra is conventionally seated on stage, I think we subliminally project that shape, higher and curved at the back, straight across the front, angling out at the sides, on to the cues coming from the recording. Note also, when a sound seems to be coming from farthest away, it’s pretty much always centrally located (center back).
Depending on how my speakers are set up I either have a shallow arc or one that extends beyond the wall outside.The latter is if the speakers are on the floor instead of stands and I sit on the floor in the sweet spot.I'm guessing it has to do with the large windows being at ear level or not,or bounce from the ceiling even.
Aside from obvious caveats about the recording, I'd say generally:

One of the ways I know a speaker is really imaging well and "disappearing" as a sound source, is when the soundstaging and imaging can remain deep from the center out to the speakers.  In other words: not an arc with all the depth in the middle.

I think any pair speaker set up in the usual triangle will give you centralized images between the speakers and with some depth.The trick is to get that depth happening at the location of the speakers too.  Intuitively (and not being a speaker designer myself), my sense is that speakers that have some combination of resonances/deviations/colorations can draw sonic attention to the speaker, so that instruments to the sides of the soundstage can feel more "stuck in the speaker" because you are hearing the speaker.  Hence you get that arc with depth in the middle but images pulled forwards to the speaker location to the side.

As I say, when a speaker truly disappears as a sound source, there isn't a sense of instruments stuck in the speakers to the sides, the depth can go way back evenly from side to side.   (My Thiel 3.7 speakers were particularly spectacular at this, my Spendor S3/5s, my Waveform Mach MC monitors, and of course my MBL omnis all do this well).