Have you tried putting bass traps on the corners?
I didn't try anything other than the keeping clothes under the bottom ports, however not blocking the air movement.
it does help to tame the bass boom, though can't eliminate to zero level.
I did hear mine MB2.5 with Avik-300, even with that I experienced the boom with all type of room treatment(in dealer,s setup), however to my surprise the MB3.5 had better sound than 2.5 in the bass and overall, maybe because the height of mb3.5 it could have the controlled the bass resonance better, by the way does it have the bottom port?
I'll try plugging foam into the bott port. That sounds like a logical approach and it's easy to do.
I plugged foam to the bottom port and it seemed to help. Bass is tighter and cleaner. I'll do more testing and keep you posted.
It sounds like your bass issue is more related to room acoustic and speaker placement. My 2.5's are about 9' apart(from the outter side). They are quite close to the side walls (less than 1.5'). 3.5' away from the back wall. Even without foam plugged to the port, I didnt have the boomy bass issue. Bass traps are still must have for me otherwise the mid and high are blurry (by using electrostat's standard). I havent heard Raidho's myself so I cant comment. But I can tell you the MB 2.5's soudstage and the darkness of the background are comparable to a few name brand speakers that I owned or auditioned before. I used to regret selling my Martin Logan and Maggie, but not anymore. I recently audioned some 10k plus speakers and I think 2.5's are still a strong contender in the space. I am not sure whether 2.5's are the right speakers for you or not. But I am sticking with them for now :)
I posted a video on YouTube to show how my MB-2.5's sound. I'm not good at A/V production so both video and audio quality are not too good. The audio quality is only a fraction of what it really sounds in the real world. The song is 'The Song My Mother Taught Me'.
I realize the Bass has smoothen a bit, still long way to go.
I read in some forum, MB series need upto 2000hrs to sound the best and to moderate level below 500hrs, are those numbers true?
I realize the Bass has smoothen a bit, still long way to go.
I am planning to get the grass wool and stuff it inside, not sure whether it is good idea?
I read in some forum, MB series need upto 2000hrs to sound the best and to moderate level below 500hrs, are those numbers true?
Murgeskj - Regarding the numbers of hrs for break - in are you referring o AVS? If so I'm OctaDyn_Dude. Please understand I am talking about Raidho 'D' series. For me I had a pair of D1's and put on 2000 hrs. Then upgraded to D2's. The D1's had approx 350 hrs on them when I bought them from my dealer as demos. The D2's had approx 50 hrs on them (over 2000 on them now).
That said EVERY Raidho 'D' series sounds fantastic out of the box. You wonder how could they get better! Well the highs will smooth out even more and get more sparkly at the same time. The tweeters take a good 300 hrs to stop changing. I never would have thought that except I had just traded in the D1's for D2's. The bass seemed a little light too. The bass got better up until 475 - 500 hrs where it got extremely boomy as if I had turned my sub to the max. It only lasted about 10 hrs to get to sound listenable again. At 650 hrs I haven't heard any change no matter how minor. With the exception of the bass going wild the changes were slow and minor.
When I owned Dynaudio C1's (had 2 new pairs of originals and 1 pair of Signatures) both sounded great out of the box. But between 100 - 150 hrs the bass and highs dropped out and the mids sounded extremely forward. Almost like magic the snapped back to sounding real good after approx 50 hrs. At 450 hrs I stopped hearing change in those too (but after the horrible sound the changes were very minor). Never heard anything bad with the signatures because I had severely downgraded my entire system until I hit the magic 450 hr mark.
So that's my experience with 2 different speaker brands. The break in was very different. I do not own Scansonics or ever even had them my home for a demo. So I won't comment on the MB break in. But from what I've read from other owners they go from being pretty bad out of the box to fantastic. It's the time frame that's so many will argue about.
Hi Xti16, I knew that Xti16 and OctaDyn_Dude are same person, no wonder the praise for the Raidho have the similarities on both forums, thanks for the details.
No, I read in some other forum about the burn in period, I don't remember which fourm, the post was under pioneer_guy, anyhow the bass is started showing some improvements.
Still I don't see the vocal coming out clear, still the midrange is muddy, especially the vocal as if I am hearing from neighboring house(I changed my Chinese 300b to Spec RSA-717ex worth USD4K. thinking that the 300b doesn’t have enough power to drive the MB2.5), still the outcome is same.
And unfortunately I made quick decision to sell my Totem Model'1', sounded neutral and MB2.5 sounds bit of warm and with limited range of sweetpot.
Waiting with crossed fingers to have some improvements on the sound.
I have seen some folks saying Magico's need 1000 to 2000 hrs.
Xti16, I met you in Bartlett when I demoed the 2.5. Although very dynamic I ended up not liking them, over bearing bass n my opinion. And 2000 hours for a speaker to break in is crazy. I'll stay happy with my Merlin BME speakers. Maybe I do have a good ear, for an old guy. You have a nice system. Would love to hear it.
I think I am a little bit over 100 hrs since I lost track of time. Per Xti16's suggestion, I plugged some foam (not a lot so the air can still flow) to the bottom port. The bass sounds cleaner and tighter. I invited a few friends over this weekend to listen to my system. They all thought the system is balanced and lively. We tried different USB, interconnect and speaker cables. The system revealed the characteristics of those cables precisely. I had a rocky start but I'm having a lot of fun now. BTW, I also tried USB Regen brought by my friend. That little thing worked beautifully. I'm going to buy one for myself.
Jjue - Glad everything is just starting to come together. Yes I would try to track the hours. I would suggest your next step would be to replace the foam with paper (like paper towels or toilet paper [clean of course LOL]) after 250 hrs. That way you would slowly opening the ports. Unless your room is extremely lively you shouldn't to plug the ports. Are the speakers on carpeting or a hard floor like wood or tile? Padded carpet sounds a lot different than a hard floor even from just the decoupling feet. When I had the D1's granite slabs under the feet added a lot to the mids and sounded a lot better to me. But with the D2's the mids are there without granite slabs. Bass was a bit tighter too
Xti16 - Thanks again for the advice. I'll keep track the hours and try paper once it's over 250 hrs. My speakers are sitting on carpet now. I'll try adding concrete/granite slab under them and see what difference that makes.This is a lot of fun :)
Our cases are similar, difference is the electronics.
the MB2.5 crossed 120hrs, and the bass considerably improved, which helped other frequencies to emerge and it is listenable now, out of box the sound was nightmare.
I was even planning to return the speakers to dealer and get whatever refund the store can offer, however the good people in the forums helped me to stick to the speaker and will wait till the burn-in is complete(500hrs), however the from this point we can expect only good sound to come.
Adding the Granite slabs will make them a little more forward sounding. If your speakers are on a hard surface the granite does very little except raise them by the thickness of the granite. I liked the granite when I had the D1's but not so much with the D2's (note when I added the granite to the D2's they were not broken in yet).
Murgeshj - Glad it works out for you too. I've been enjoying the sound brought by these puppies and playing with different cables and tweaks. As I said before, the break-in process is quite enjoyable now :)
I figured out that there is no much changes on the SQ from past few weeks..
already 300hrs on MB2.5, should I conclude the run in is done, however the foam is still intact under the bass port(without the foam the bass is bit of booming).
the MB2.5 is easy going speakers, any type of music is listenable, with smoothness.
Have you tried without the foam plugs since you have 300 hrs on them?
I am still at the 200 hrs range with foam.Sounds fantastic even not fully broken in. I tried putting granite tiles under the speakers but didnt like the sound so gave up on that.
without the foam is still the bass has the booming effect, with the foam the bass is tight and focused.
however the sound has matured a lot now.
yesterday, I heard the ablum Norwegian Mood - Kari Bremnes, never heard the clarity and life like voice on the MB2.5 paired with the 300B tube integrate..
I heard same album in audio shop with no deditcated room through ALLNIC AUDIO T-1500 and Grand Veena BE Loudspeaker, had a great synergy, compared to above set MB2.5 had better clarity and timing, however the Grand veena felt more natural..
I think the MB-2.5 is lean, clean and fast. They are also very revealing. Different source systems and cables can make quite a bit difference based on my experience. I've been experimenting interconnects recently. The sound from Synergistic impressed me the most. But they are pricey ($2,000+ MSRP). A budgeted alternative I've found is Silnote Morpheus II Series II (purple label). I think your 'life-like' description is very similar to my experience with the MB-2.5's when they're paired with the right components and cables. Enjoy!
I'm hoping you're right about cables making a difference. I'm hoping to get some Ansuz X speaker cables to replace my Naim NACA5. My dealer says they are a very good cable for the price. I think they are a bit pricey at around $1800-$1900 for a 3M pair but that seems to be a bargain compared to some cables.
My ears are not so prefect to identify the difference on the cables or may I am not such an expert, however the major difference what my ears can identify is on the speakers, amplifier and finally on the source.
I have never used any expensive cables, the most expensive ones what I have used is USD250(may be the only the expensive ones can make the difference, )
I know it sounds unreal to the 'non audiophiles' that cables make difference. You can find a lot of debates if you google the related subjects. Cables do make significant difference in my system. Even the USB cable. Yes, a lot of people criticize the high end USB cabkes and say they are snake oil. I cant explain why (I have a MS degree in Computer Science) but my cuurent USB cable (Anticabkes USB) sounds the best after I've tried several. The are priced from $10(Belkin) to $1,000. Interestingly enough, none of them sound the same. Power cord is another important one if you havent explored yet. But cables are also very system deoendent. Make your own judgement call is what I'd say. Have fun with your 2.5's is the most imoortant thing, isnt it? Happy listening :)
How to decide which cable is good for the system, whether it should be based on the speaker or based on the amplifiers?
However I want to invest on the Ansuz cables, but not right now.
I want to get the speakers settled properly, then will make the decisions, till then let the suggestion and experience can be shared.....
I don't think there's a simple answer to the cable selection question. It depends on the whole system from end to end. And some times the answer could be subjective. I try not to over spend on cables since I believe majority of the investment should be in the source, amp and speakers. Cables can really push the system to its limit once you've settled on the major components. Seriously, I think my MB-2.5's outperform some of the entry level big name speakers that are priced at $10k range. But that's just my opinion :)
Hit the 400 hrs burn in mark onto MB2.5, the sound is relaxed and still plenty of details with magic of life-like sound.
When compared to Totem Model'1', the MB2.5 sounds more relaxed, better bass(off course it should sound better being Floor standing), high's have some smooth presentation without loosing the details, however Model'1', has the mid-range presentation a fraction better.
Initially, was worried on the bass booming effect, after few suggestions from Audiogon members, placed foam under the bass ports, which tamed the bass booming, making the MB2.5 worth Buy..
People looking for floor-standing, with small footprints, can have the audition the MB2.5, however please note that, as advised by other MB2.5 owners, MB2.5 need to be placed about 8-9feets from each other to sound best.
Glad to know that you enjoy your 2.5's. The 2.5's could be a little bit short in the mids as you said. I found that can be compensated by cables. Several interconnects I tried sounded very detailed and dynamic but too lean when they're paired with the 2.5's. But I think I've found the one that fits my budget with the sound I like. Anyway, congrats 9n yiur success with the 2.5's. Keep us posted if you find new tweaks.
Has anybody auditioned the MB-6's? If so, would you mind of sharing your experience?
Does somebody can tell if the mb 1 would be ok if placed very close to the rear wall?
I have mine placed very close to the wall using as surrounds in a 5.1 setup and they are performing great. They should perform fine as maids close to the wall since they are front ported but you will lose some depth in the soundstage.
I'm interested in these speakers, specifically the MB 2.5, but don't have a place to hear them, so would have to purchase on faith. I've been watching Scansonic postings on Agon over the past few weeks and have seen several postings for low hour, basically brand new speakers at 50% of new. Several people have mentioned that they bought them as demos at CES, but how many of those can there be? I've grown accustomed to taking Agon descriptions with a grain of salt. I'm really concerned that these things sound so bad out of the box that people are giving up on them almost immediately and selling them. Also curious about the increased value of the dollar vs. Euro over the last several months and wondering if they are simply selling for less.
" I'm really concerned that these things sound so bad out of the box that
people are giving up on them almost immediately and selling them."
I'll admit they don't sound all that great out of the box and need 2 -300 hrs to really open up. The lows will be fairly thumpy for about the first 50hrs. Another thing is positioning. They will sound best about 9ft apart and toed in pointing to your shoulders. They are bottom ported and can be pretty close to the side walls but a couple of feet from the rear wall is recommended. So if you can't position correctly they won't sound their best. IMO when setup properly they will sound a lot better than the 3.6k retail.
Last year my local dealer sold 10 pairs at Axpona so it is possible there are quite a few show specials.
XTI16, Thanks for your reply. I plan on going to Axpona this year and hopefully they will have these available for a listen.
Betty writing here. I'm Alfred Kainz's wife ( of highend-electronics, inc. ). I don't usually write in forums, I just happened to see this discussion. I realize it's been a while, but I thought it still might be helpful to someone to know that we're a Scansonic dealer located in Apple Valley, CA, about 1 1/2 hours north-east of LA.
We usually have all 4 models in stock. We have a listening room (by appointment), so anyone close enough is more than welcome to give them a listen.
Davegoodrich - My local dealer will be at Axpona showing Raidho. I'll ask if he will demo Scansonic 2.5's again like last year. Have a gut feeling he'll want to show the MB6's and Raidho's new Dx.1 series.
Davegoodrich, I bought my MB-2.5's from Alfred without listening to them first. Luckily there were Audiogon members like Xti16 who advised me during the initial setup and break-in period. I like my MB-25's a lot and they sound way above their price point even at the $3.6k MSRP. As good they sound, there are things to be aware of still:
1. Room size and placement: These speakers are not designed to fit into a small room. My listening room is 14x20x10. I place my speakers 9' apart and 3.5' from the front wall as Xti and other members suggested. Their sweet spot is a little bit narrow but much better than the planar speakers.
2. Break-in: They didn't sound good at all when they were just out of the box. They need at least 200 hours or more break-in time to start sounding good. The difference is night and day. For those who sold their 2.5's with less than 100 hours, I feel sorry for them since they haven't heard the real sound of the 2.5's yet.
3. Room treatment: Don't be fooled by their slim size. The 2.5's produce high volume of bass that could be excessive for rooms with hard surfaces and glass windows. Bass traps and sound panels are tweaks may be considered.
4. Source, amplification and cabling: The 2.5's are very revealing. They are lean, clean and fast. I think they are power hunger but there are members on this forum have successful experience with low wattage amps. Since the 2.5's are so revealing, the selection of source and cabling will also significantly impact the outcome of your system.
Since audio is a very subjective and personal hobby, I'd still suggest you go listen them first before making a purchase if possible.
I have about 150 hours on my 2.5's and I'm pairing them with the Parasound Halo Integrated which has 160WPC at 8ohm. I agree that these drivers are very power hungry. I can turn the Parasound all the way up and its only moderately loud in my 16x32 living room. Wondering if anyone else is noticing that these speakers are tough to drive and if a sub would help in this case?
In my 20'x10' room driving my 2.5 with a 70w NaimUniti 2 turned up half way is too loud in my room. I'm sure more power wouldn't hurt but I don't think it's needed.
I appreciate all the positive feedback. These will be located in a 20'x30' room, so they will have plenty of space to breathe. In fact I was a bit concerned that with having two smaller mid/woofers there may not be enough low end. As I don't have a local dealer I will have to find one in another town or wait until Axpona (and hope they are on display). I have heard the Raidhos and like them, so if these are anywhere close they must be special. I have patience, so time is on my side. Once again, thanks for all who shared their thoughts.
davegoodrich - That's a pretty large room. You may be better off with MB3.5's or the new MB6. I asked my dealer which models he is going to have at Axpona and I can't see him bringing that much with him. He wants to bring MB1's - 2.5's - 3.5's and MB6 Along with Raidho's XT1 - XT2 and XT3 and D1.1 - D2.1 and D3.1. I should have a better idea closer to the show.
BTW where are you located?
Just purchased of used pair of 2.5's are they are boomy as all get out! No matter where I paced them I couldn't get rid of this excess mid-bass thump.
Out of frustration I cut a piece of Corning 703 Insulation that I use for room treatment and the speakers have transformed into something that will last me long term (Yeah right!)..Anyhow, combined with another killer bargain Pioneer SW8 MKII in the corners, I am in sonic heaven. Transparency muddled prior to stuffing the has returned to a level I haven't heard before in my dedicated listening room. Better that the Magnepan MG3.6r and Totem Mani-2's they replaced.
The Scansonic sound is quite additive when everything is setup right. I have about 500 hours on my 2.5's and they sound great. Upgraded my DAC and power cord recently and my system's sound continues to improve.
For anyone still interested in feedback related to the Scansonic MB6 I have had a pair in a simple system I set up about 3 months ago. My room is roughly 5.5m x 10m wth a 3m ceiling. I am using a Norma IPA 140 purchased new when I got the MB6's and run a Meridian 808.2i purchased second hand. I use an Isotek Aquarius power filter with all equipment sitting on a 3 level Gregitek rack. I am using antique PS Audio Stream Master Reference speaker cables, Sonic Art interconnects(silver over copper) and Sonic Art power cables plus an Isotek Optimum for the Aquarius . The cables had not been used for over 5 years and I re-terminated all but the interconnects when I set up the system. I go through this detail as I am not sure exactly sure of the main contributing factor/s contributing to the sound I was getting initially but I guess all were contributing to a greater or lesser extent. The sound was ok but a little bit disjointed and not incredibly natural. The Gregitek was the last component added and truly this had an immediate positive effect on the sound. The biggest difference, however was courtesy of the Aquarius. I live in Cambodia and the power here is shall we say not pure!! Anyway with the system all set up with I would think about 70 hours on it the presentation was nice but not quite right. That is I always knew I was listening to a CD and the music lacked an emotional connection that as a big analogue fan I always crave. As some have mentioned on this thread people have given up the the MB series after too short a time. In my view if you give up on the MB6 too early you will be missing something very special. After 250-300 hours the system has taken on a very natural, lifelike and totally coherent presentation. Please refer to the manual. They do tell you this with deference to the guys at Audioholics and their view on minimal speaker break in time. Now I am listening to music and it can sound wonderful. There is a connection with the performers and obviously more so on well recorded material. Voices are beautifully and very naturally rendered. For those wanting the hi-fi terms for orientation, the sound is very detailed but completely non fatiguing and I listen a lot. Excellent depth with a big soundstage extending beyond the speakers. Bass is very tight, full and articulate but not super deep. Not something I crave but if you do these may not be for you. They are very dynamic. I have the speakers 3 m apart and 1.75m out from the front wall and towed in just outside my head. I have previously owned Sonus Faber Guarneris and the speaker that replaced them was the Wilson Benesch ACT. I would not swap either speaker for the MB6's. Now the other two are better finished to be sure so pride of ownership is higher if that is a concern to you. The MB6 are good but nowhere near Raidho class and for the price how could they be? In my view they look very good and are well engineered. The bottom line is that they are speakers I could happily live with. With some work on my room (the most important component of any system IMV) with some Stillpoints Apertures and furnishings I think I will be set with a very, very satisfying system. Now if I only had my analogue system back. Roll on MQA
I´m interested in the MB2.5s to use with Bel Canto electronics. They would be
driven by Reference 600 mono blocks, and the front end would be a 2.7 preamplifier
DAC and a CD3T transport.
all this I am concerned about my room. They will live at the family room, which
is an open space with the stairways right behind it and a hallway and a studio
on the left side. Without the studio and hallway it measures 13 by 14 feet, and is about 10 feet tall.
The only possible
placement for my stereo is before the stairs. Like I said, to the left there is
an opening, to the right I have furniture to place (wife acceptance factor!),
and the other wall has a window on it!
is that, given the space limitations that our furniture imposes (couches,
center table, entertainment center, etc), I would only have a foot between the
speakers and the back wall, meaning the little wall at the beginning of the
stairs behind the left speaker, and the full wall behind the right one.
This is a
second system where I have used integrateds and bookshelves so far. I was happy
with it but I got carried away and bought these newly released Bel Canto Reference
600Ms. I love them, but now I think I exaggerated because they are not made for
monitors. They have too much power (300 WPC at 8 ohms and 600 WPC at 4 ohms),
and I feel I´m not getting their full potential with bookshelves. Besides, why
would you want a subwoofer when you have a dedicated amplifier for each
In my main
listening room I use tubes and electrostatics, and I have a very hard time with
most tweeters I know. I tend to greatly favor ribbons over domes and, given
their small foot print, I thought about the 2.5s. However, I don´t see myself
stuffing the ports and putting bass traps in the living room.
has an idea for a compact floorstander with a ribbon tweeter that won´t be so
fuzzy regarding placement? My budget is around 4 to 5 thousand dollars. Thanks!
I heard Monitor Audio GX200 a couple of years back and thought it sounded nice. The ribbon tweeter on it kind of helped me decide on the MB2.5.
So the ribbon on the 2.5 is better than the one on the Monitor Audio?
Not sure I would say that. My experience with the GX200 was good enough for me to blind buy the MB2.5 over a year ago. I have not thought about upgrading since then. Well I have thought about mb3.5 and now the new mb5. Same tweeter.