Sakura Systems OTA Cable Kit

Please, don't use OTA from cartridge to phono stage!
My mention of this scenario was not in the reference of OTA but a dedicated armwire.

Sead

p.s. Will write more but just got back from a trip and noticed this which, IMO was something that needed an immediate comment.

Btw: "The problem is the bare OTA wire itself is too stiff to be a good tonearm wire. The stiffness will play havoc with the tonearm's antiskating."
Correct, OTA is stiffer than tonearm cables. But there is a way to spiral it away from the arm that will not seriously affect antiskating (even if it will increase signal length) assuming that one can position the phono stage as one needs.
Sead: "Please, don't use OTA from cartridge to phono stage!" Sead, I hope you spend a little time discussing what makes this prohibition necessary. There is something mysterious here... even though I can intuit what might motivate your immediate rejection from my own resistance to proceeding with this experiment. It certainly would be less work and hassle to just take the SY cable plug shoes off of the end of the arm wire, strip off the insulation a bit, and install it in the OTA plugs. But the shoe/crimp contact I am using right now seems altogether satisfactory (even though there is a solder joint there between the tonearm wires and the shoes). Today, I inspected and cleaned the contact and thought I would try some fluid with it to improve conductivity. One contact fluid (Reson Licon) had detrimental sonic effects. I wasted a lot of time waiting for the abrasive mid-ranges introduced by it to go away and I eventually wiped away all traces of it.
For deoxidation/desulfidization the technical sprays from CRC (by which I mean Kontakt 60 and Kontakt 61) have worked wonderfully with OTA, and exhibit only minimal detrimental effect on sound. BTW, CRC puts out alot of other technical sprays: Kontakt WL, Kälte 75 Super, Kontaflon 85, Drückluft 67 plus, Video 90, Tuner 600, Sprühöl 88, Screen 99, Antistatik 100, Etikette LX, and Reiniger 601 do their specific jobs right.

"Sead: "Please, don't use OTA from cartridge to phono stage!" Sead, I hope you spend a little time discussing what makes this prohibition necessary. There is something mysterious here..."

Slawney, nothing mysterious, simply OTA is too rigid not to mess up with the designed movement of the tonearm and can lead into a serious damage to the cartridge as a medium term effect. Very simple. Even if you spiral it, put it any way you want it, it will still affect the bearing movement (or/and azimuth with unipivot tonearms), not to mention the antiskating adjustment. Btw is absolutely right. Even "not seriously affect" is a serious thing in the game of small figures as they are in the arm/cart game. My guess is that even if OTA would be 0.1mm instead of 0.4mm it would still be too much of spring effect introduced for a solid core cable. If you want to get rid of your cartridge, I can think of several less painfull ways. :-)

"For deoxidation/desulfidization the technical sprays from CRC (by which I mean Kontakt 60 and Kontakt 61) have worked wonderfully with OTA, and exhibit only minimal detrimental effect on sound. BTW, CRC puts out alot of other technical sprays: Kontakt WL, Kälte 75 Super, Kontaflon 85, Drückluft 67 plus, Video 90, Tuner 600, Sprühöl 88, Screen 99, Antistatik 100, Etikette LX, and Reiniger 601 do their specific jobs right."

Water dilluted sodium bicarbonate is adequate for the job. Cheap, neat, mild and clean, without side effects.
Most of the commercial deoxidants I've tried are either pretty agressive or have tendency to leave a sort of "protective" film which is something I am not particularly fond of.

Best regards,
Sead

Ok, sead, no OTA tonearm wire for the time being. I suppose there is no way to soften OTA for this without damaging its sonic performance, and no way to install OTA as tonearm wire without damaging cartridge.

Did 47 Labs supply the wire to Miyabi for the Miyabi/47 cartridge?

Also, Kontakt 61 leaves a protective film afterwards, but 60 does not.

Have OTA now as bi-wire bridges on loudspeakers. Loved it the first half hour, but now it is the usual break-in with frequency response going in different directions. Will just have to wait and listen...

Bill, I've been using the OTA as power cords for more than 8 months. The sort of changes in sound was similar to those when I installed OTA as speaker cable and interconnect. That means that all kind of colorations and dirtiness just disappeared (I was using Transparent and Electrocompaniet power cords before). For me, the OTA power cords brought the final word to 47 labs "sound".
Both Humpty and Dumpty are connected through the ONE AC plug into the ONE AC wall socket. All metal parts from the plugs (both IEC and AC plug) are removed (screws, etc) except, of course, metal pins that go into the wall socket. There is no ground connection. The wires are not shielded; it degrades the sound.

Best regards,

Ivo

Thanks a lot for the detailed feedback. It's interesting to note that another friend who has been fabrication his own power cords, also told me that its a good idea to remove the ground and the shielding whenever possible. This friend also mentioned that the cables should not be too tightly bound together or it'll screw up the sound. I've already bought the AC and IEC plugs and I'll try the power cords next week.

Bill

I agree with the post - several posts back - about not twisting the cable. The sonic result is awful.

However, one configuration that sounded very good to me was;
- get a length of plastic rod or tube with good dialectric qualities and good flexibility - usually a foam rod is best
- wrap one conductor around the rod, from end-to-end, circling the rod once every six inches or so.
- do the same with a second conductor but wrap it counter to the first one, so that it is therefore crossing the first one twice every six inches.

I suppose in theory this configuration has lowish capacitance, and lower inductance than letting the cable fall chaotically on the floor (the approved method). Whatever, the result sounds cleaner to me. Certainly, I prefer the physical result too.

Don't ask me where I got the central foam rod - I took it out of the center of some Straightwire speaker cable I didn't mind butchering.

So far I have used three Storatos power cables in my system. Two 20 ft runs direct from 230 Volt AC wall socket to each VAIC SET monobloc and one 6 ft run between a dedicated-digital power strip to a z-systems digital preamp/equalizer.
I will certainly add more Storatos PCs now after hearing this arrangement, since the use of my existing PC cables (all of them NBS Statements) seems more problematic (mechanically, electronically, sonically) than not having them. I am certain that the Storatos cables improved the ability of the z-systems preamp to handle complex frequency- and dynamic-related information in the digital domain, and that it enhanced the transient characteristics, detail and reproduction of frequency extremes (crisper treble, tighter bass) of the VAIC monoblocks. This latter result was surprising since the VAIC monoblocks have some special "challenges" with their power supply and require exteme care when it comes to mains voltage--I will spare you the details. In short, let me just say that I was shocked that Storatos could function as such an excellent power cable for these power-hungry units, fast enough to cover their sudden demands in energy.
Some tips for making up Storatos PCs.
There are lots of metal parts in every stock IEC and PC plug I have examined: mainly screws for the wires, wire guides, and lead systems for + - and ground. These can be a problem if you want to minimize intermediary connections between Storatos and your house mains cables or the hook-up wires to your components transformers.
If you plan on using an AC plug, try to find one with solid copper prongs (German high-end manufacturer "Phonosophie" provides copper tip plugs for the Schucko system). If your house has Schucko outlets (i.e. you live in Europe), you can also use two 47 Labs speaker banana plugs as AC plug prongs and make a direct contact between Storatos and your house mains this way. (BE VERY CAREFUL TO AVOID SHOCK!) This solution is not possible for the American plug system. But you can still always make a direct "pressure" contact between Storatos and your house mains. (This goes without saying, but, TURN OFF YOUR HOUSE MAINS BEFORE YOU DO THIS!)
As for the other side of the Storatos power cable, I have used both light-weight PVC and rubber IEC female plugs (I actually prefer the cheaper PVC variety). One important tip: Do not simply crush the bare Storatos wire under the screw clamp! Instead wrap the bare Storatos around the IEC "U" brackets/guide (leaving enough Storatos insulator stripped away to allow the male IEC prongs to fit fully into the female "U" receptables) so that the male IEC will make direct contact with the Storatos wire. Affix Storatos in the IEC by screwing down on the beginning of the insulated portion, being careful not to break or strain the wire inside.
You may want to leave the halves of the IEC relatively loose until you have the female IEC (with the Storatos bent around the very tip in a "V" formation) fitted over the male IEC prongs of your component. Then you can finally affix the two IEC halves together by fully tightening the screw that holds the two halves together after the IEC is inserted into the component.
As far as defeating the third (center, ground) prong on the ac line-cord by removing it, I will leave a few warnings. This third prong provides a ground connection, which not only helps prevent pickup of RF interference but prevents possible damage to components. This ground return is legally required by Underwriter's Laboratories, a branch of the National Board of Fire Underwriters (in the USA) and by EU regulations (in Europe). Not only can some equipment get damaged by removing the ground, but a fire hazard can be introduced. If your house burns down and the investigation of the remains reveals that you were operating equipment without grounds connection, your insurance company is not liable to pay any of your claims. They will simply look at it as your negligence to provide protection from excessive current risks.
Note that it is no advantage to shield Storatos ac power cables. Note also that lengthening the ac cable to 20 feet, as I did, did not impose excessive power loss. If high-frequency response was lowered by such a long power cable, then that is a matter of no technical concern, and even an advantage: hifi equipment is operated in Germany at a frequency of 60-Hz ac, well below the high-frequency loss (starting from 2,000 Hz) imposed by long lengths of connecting cable.
One final "tip": I think dekay already said this, but if you solder Storatos wire, a small soldering iron is advisable. You will want to use as little solder for your connection as possible. Modify your soldering iron to limit the amount of heat and solder that is applied to the circuit board terminal point. Use a short length of bare Storatos wire wrapped around the tip of the soldering iron, and cut to a tip of approximately 1/4 inch. After prolonged use, the wire will become corroded and pitted, and must then be replaced.

OTA Power Cords. I'll try your method with my next 2 Power Cords. I've already done 5 Power Cords and the improvements brought about by the OTA power cords are pretty amazing. Fantastic value for money compared to what good PCs are going for these days.

»In short, let me just say that I was shocked that Storatos could function as such an excellent power cable for these power-hungry units, fast enough to cover their sudden demands in energy. »

Slawney, you are continuosly surprising me with your pioneer spirit!

Franky, I would say feeding you VAIC with mains from tiny 47Labs cable is an overkill. I wouldn't dare even try that! Well, I couldn't sleep the first night I had my low power consumer setup hooked on it but I think I told you about that.

Why did you need 20ft power cables? You had them hooked to the mains in the other room?

»There are lots of metal parts in every stock IEC and PC plug I have examined: mainly screws for the wires, wire guides, and lead systems for + - and ground. These can be a problem if you want to minimize intermediary connections between Storatos and your house mains cables or the hook-up wires to your components transformers.«

No problem at all! Just throw away ALL the metal not strictly related to contact making. You can glue back IEC and PC plugs instead of screwing them back with metal screw. From an ordinary PC plug and three IEC connectors I usually end up with fistfull of pieces I put into dump.

»If you plan on using an AC plug, try to find one with solid copper prongs (German high-end manufacturer "Phonosophie" provides copper tip plugs for the Schucko system).«

Did I tell you that one? Actually, I didn't know about that one but when talking on the subject with Jonathan Carr, he raised my attention to this product.

»If your house has Schucko outlets (i.e. you live in Europe), you can also use two 47 Labs speaker banana plugs as AC plug prongs and make a direct contact between Storatos and your house mains this way. (BE VERY CAREFUL TO AVOID SHOCK!) »

In all seriousness, that is something I would not like people start doing… Are the extra bananas you ordered last time for that? If so, good I didn't have them in stock… Forget about getting them, unless using them for speakers, hehe. I intend to see you in May and not to bring flowers to your tombstone.

»As for the other side of the Storatos power cable, I have used both light-weight PVC and rubber IEC female plugs (I actually prefer the cheaper PVC variety).«

I agree that PVC should be better. What counts here is, of course the conducting material. Copper, then brass, then rhodium would come on my list. Nothing else. No plating.

»One important tip: Do not simply crush the bare Storatos wire under the screw clamp!«

A very easy thing to do…

» Instead wrap the bare Storatos around the IEC "U" brackets/guide (leaving enough Storatos insulator stripped away to allow the male IEC prongs to fit fully into the female "U" receptables) so that the male IEC will make direct contact with the Storatos wire. Affix Storatos in the IEC by screwing down on the beginning of the insulated portion, being careful not to break or strain the wire inside.«

This one is tricky and I sense problems with this arrangement (as in most cases, a good contact will remain to be desired, if not done right).

»As far as defeating the third (center, ground) prong…«

I checked mine and haven't seen any center prongs left, hehe.

»… on the ac line-cord by removing it, I will leave a few warnings. This third prong provides a ground connection, which not only helps prevent pickup of RF interference but prevents possible damage to components. This ground return is legally required by Underwriter's Laboratories, a branch of the National Board of Fire Underwriters (in the USA) and by EU regulations (in Europe). Not only can some equipment get damaged by removing the ground, but a fire hazard can be introduced. If your house burns down and the investigation of the remains reveals that you were operating equipment without grounds connection, your insurance company is not liable to pay any of your claims.«

Which, I think, probably is the case if used power cables of lesser diameter than required by the power rating of the appliance… It's a slippery territory we are talking about here and I can not recommend to anyone to make power cables from Storatos.

But, if you do….

Why bother with multiple cables? That leaves you with problems.

Why not use one PC plug and run multiple IEC's out of it?

So, you need three power cords, for example… Take 6 runs (9 runs if intending to keep the grounding), mark three of them (and onother three for grounds, yet in another color) at cable ends on both sides. On one side, wrap threes of the same color together and fit them into PC plug.

Other sides of cable, one of each color go to IEC plug, making sure to fit each of them to IEC on the same place (if wire colored red is in one IEC connector on the left side, it should be on the left side in the other two IEC plugs as well. If using ground, wires colored as ground MUST go to IEC grounds, of course. This is valid for Shucko mains plugs system where PC plug can be plugged two ways to match required polarity. For UK, one must make sure that Live comes to the right side of IEC plug, looking at IEC conenctor from the front side, flat side down…

This way, you can be sure that each of your components has exactly the same polarity orientation, no need for extension cord (so you want to make it long enough to reach the wall plug), less metal, etc…

»Note that it is no advantage to shield Storatos ac power cables.«

Very much agreed.

Best regards,
Sead

Would like to try it myself. Anybody wants to go for it together? I'll just need 6-7' for two interconnects and maybe 16+' for speaker cable. So more interested parties cheaper for all. Let me know!

Pssst! I keep hearing fire trucks outside my window, but no disaster here yet.

"Slawney, you are continuosly surprising me with your pioneer spirit!"

"Pioneer"? I like to think of myself as a full-fledged OTA OTAKU! Sead, please ask Teramura or Kimura about the meaning of the word "Ota" in Japanese and ask whether there was an implied reference to the Japanese "Otaku" movement of the 80s. Young, permanently infantile Japanese nerds sleeping away there life in a protective imaginary universe of their own making. As for me, OTA cable kit is perhaps becoming my electronic "umbilical cord" to "mother 47 Labs." I am starting to hear those " infinite tentacles" Teramura describes--at least, see them stretched between all plugs and outlets in the listening room. He didn't warn us that these tentacles would be blue/green, but isn't that the color of the Pacific?

"Franky, I would say feeding you VAIC with mains from tiny 47Labs cable is an overkill. I wouldn't dare even try that! Well, I couldn't sleep the first night I had my low power consumer setup hooked on it but I think I told you about that."

The VAICs are fed AC power with Storatos, and they will remain fed AC power with Storatos. (They are even wired inside with Storatos now, he he, don't tell Alessa). In fact, I finally got the entire rig wired with Storatos power cords! As for nightmare fantasies, I did have a daytime anxiety attack on a commuter train outside Frankfurt when I was suddenly overcome with the fear that one of the IECs had not been inserted far enough, and that it would touch off a fire in my listening room. I desperately wanted to return home to remedy the problem, and was distracted the entire time I was at work until I could return. Nothing bad had happened.

"Why did you need 20ft power cables? You had them hooked to the mains in the other room?"

Not the other room, but the opposite wall. Has to do with house wiring and the need to separate high power and low power users in the system. I did not like at all using that much Storatos for this hookup, and some day I will not need it. I hope then that the long ac cables can be returned to normal interconnects. Have you ever recycled a Storatos ac cable into a Storatos interconnect?

"Just throw away ALL the metal not strictly related to contact making."

Have done exactly that: except (and this is an important except) for the brass (they are brass, unfortunately) "U" guides that channel the bare Storatos wire (in the IEC) towards prongs on the components. Without them, I would not be able to make a direct contact with these prongs.

"You can glue back IEC and PC plugs instead of screwing them back with metal screw."

I would need a third hand to apply the glue. Things are tricky enough with making the direct contact between Storatos and IEC prongs since I have to push the two halves of the IEC female together after it is slipped onto the male. (I really like the language here: "the two halves of the ... female ...slipped onto the male")

"From an ordinary PC plug and three IEC connectors I usually end up with fistfull of pieces I put into dump."

The dump is increasing here in Frankfurt, too.

"Did I tell you that one (that "Phonosophie" makes copper prong plugs)? Actually, I didn't know about that one but when talking on the subject with Jonathan Carr, he raised my attention to this product."

Yes, Sead, you told me that one: perhaps after pondering the deplorable aspects of my previous $21,000 ac cable network. I rarely forget a thing you say. I do not know if Phonosophie actually made this copper prong plug (come to think of it, what do they actually "make"?) and it is rather difficult to track down, but the person I got them from says that he possibly could have gotten them from Phonosophie, but he isn't sure.

"Are the extra bananas you ordered last time for (use as ac cable plugs)? If so, good I didn't have them in stock… Forget about getting them, unless using them for speakers, hehe. I intend to see you in May and not to bring flowers to your tombstone."

I like the way 47 Labs does not let you electrocute yourself with their products. Arthur Salvature was right when he said (on "high-endaudio.com") that the service with 47 Labs is excellent. They will even bring flowers to your funeral! Much better than with "some other manufacturer" (I was going to mention the name, but decided to wipe out any trace of violent comparative advertising). With the unnamed product I really gave myself shock treatment: disoriented myself for two weeks. The flesh on my hand actually stank like a corpse, and took a long time to heal. Remembering this, I feel pretty irresponsible suggesting this heretical use of the banana plug. Please do not use OTA banana plugs as power cable leads! Forget that I even mentioned it! Sead, the banana plugs I ordered were for a speaker: except for the fact that I do not have the speaker yet. And probably will not until I hear "Essence" for a second time in May. So long as I live till then. Thus, yes, it is perhaps in your greater interest to not sell me the banana plugs just yet. And probably in my own interest. It may be that I will not need banana plugs at all, he he.

"IEC contacts: Copper, then brass, then rhodium would come on my list. Nothing else. No plating."

The IECs I use come with brass contacts, no plating. The guide for the wire is a circular hole through a rectangular brass fitting. Many other IECs do not have circular guides, but simple screws, where the cable is pinched by the screw against the side of the IEC housing: avoid these at all costs! They are frustrating to work with and electronically, and mechanically inferior. Make sure whatever IEC you use does not strain Storatos when screwing the insulated portion into place.

Sead on my suggested method for terminating the Storatos wire in the IEC (see above): "This one is tricky and I sense problems with this arrangement (as in most cases, a good contact will remain to be desired, if not done right)."

Admittedly, "tricky." You need the right IEC. You also need to leave just the right amount of tension in the bare Storatos wire, as well as arrange the wires very precisely in the "U" guide. Also, the "ground" center wire has to maneuver around the hole for the screw that holds the two IEC halves together. But... it has worked every time that I have done it. My recommended amount of bare Storatos at this end is 3 cm, although you can lengthen it to 4 cm and wrap the bare end of the Storatos wire around the brass guide (just in front of the screw clamp) for extra sturdiness after you make the "V" turn and reach sufficent distance from the tip so that the male IEC does not encounter resistance (too short, and the IEC male will not fit fully inside and you will have anxiety scenes like the one I described above). To get the best fit, the gully of the "U" must have only one strand of bare Storatos wire in it, straightly arranged, and not absolutely tight, cut to the correct length so that the insulation does not interfere with the penetration of the male IEC plug into the female. The only problems I have encounted is that the Storatos-equipped female fits tighter over the normal male IEC (this perverse technical language!) and difficulties may be encountered when removing the IEC in the future without loosening it up with a screwdriver first. What problems do you sense?

"Why bother with multiple cables? That leaves you with problems. Why not use one PC plug and run multiple IEC's out of it?"

The advice sead gives you above is valuable, and worth rereading and referring to in detail. In particular, the advice he gives concerning consistent polarity orientation is crucial for Schucko users, since (unlike other systems) you can easily reverse polarity. Color code all of your Storatos cables when making up the power cables and make sure you have the correct polarity orientation. Use a polarity checker or take off the chassis of your components if you are not sure where the "live" wire is. You must do this before you make up a Storatos ac power cable with multiple runs to compensate for any reversals in polarity you have in a given component. Perfect polarity consistency can be heard by a trained human ear (by listening closely to the bass, and other things), of course, but it is better to check polarity visually by looking at the wiring of the component rather than play around switching wire orientations in a multiple run (Storatos will eventually break and you will have to recut and perhaps lose groupings) and listen with each regrouping. I recently ran 3 multiple lines of Storatos ac cable out of an isolation transformer/filter outlet, and the method I used is very similar to what sead mentions.

»Note that it is no advantage to shield Storatos ac power cables.«

"Very much agreed."

And yet think of the high cost of the shielding that goes into a boutique power cable (some even with active shielding). LOL. ... However, as you can tell, I am not entirely against using Storatos with power conditioning in problematic mains situations (like my own). But, unfortunately, one hears the positive AND the negative effects of power conditioning much better with Storatos than with "boutique" power cables.

Best regards,
Ota Otaku

Got my OTA cable kit today - swapped out my Audio Note AN-Vz and NBS Statement for this stuff (for the time being). Right off the bat, the OTA sounds okay but something is missing - I cannot quite figure out what it is. But then again the OTA only has 15 minuts on it. Will update as things progress.

All right Bwhite! I'm just about ready to jump in on this kit myself. I'll be watching (yeah I'm a tightwad) and waiting to hear about your experience with this stuff. Are you using the OTA on your whole system? I'll agree that 15 minutes is just a wee bit optimistic to expect any real quality. I recently have been burning in a new set of the little Triangle Titus speakers.Man,they sounded awful at first.Now after 3 months of burn in,I cant believe what comes out of those little guys.Hope you (we)dont have to wait that long on the OTA!...Will look forward to your next post....

Hi Davej - I purchased two kits & used it to wire up my home theater and my two channel system. I couldn't manage to use it all - I would be willing to sell a partial kit to you if you're interested that way you don't have to take on the entire 600 expense. I have 8 connectors and about 20 meters of wire left if you're interested let me know.

After listening for an evening - I think the OTA has outstanding potential to be a real giant killer. It doesn't have the "flavor" of most other cables I've tried and perhaps that is a good thing - the OTA is quite neutral.

The neutrlity comes as an immediate shock since I have grown so accustomed to colorations and used various colorations to build my system into one that I imagined to be the "perfect color" - something that I had thought was neutral but clearly not. Right now, I'm not quite sure what to do with the more neutral coloration that OTA is showing me since it makes my system sound so much different.

Over the course of the evening the OTA changed its tone frequently & I expect alot out of this cable.

BWhite: What are the longest cable runs that you are using (to other than ambient speakers)? I should have tried longer runs (in the beginning before cutting up the cable) to see how they sounded, but did not think of it @ the time. Also, are you using the OTA as IC's throughout the system? It can also be used to replace digital and phono IC's. You have already made the offer (and lots of people want to get a "piece" of this kit), but I would suggest hanging on the the extras for use down the line. If a run were to break in the middle it would need to be replaced, plus I have broken five of the white center posts on the RCA's to date.

Hi Dekay,

The longest run I am using is about 25 feet to ambient (rear surround) speakers. The longest interconnect is about 1.5 meters. I wasted the first 1 meter pair of interconnects as they were way too short after stripping and breaking TWICE while trying to assemble and ended up with a 1.5 foot pair which I use from my DVD player to the home theater processor.

I cannot tell a difference between the long ICs and the short as far as sonics goes.

In addition to the two kits, I purchased extra sets of the RCA plugs. I'm covered for a while plus I have a significant quantity of left over wire. The offer to sell the extra stuff was made to allow someone else to reap the benefits of this kit for much less than 600 bucks.

Hey Bwhite!
sounds like a great idea.I have been looking for someone to go in on a set.I'll email ya after I get off work...thanks! dave

I made up some of the knotted OTA digital cables (80"/40") described by dekay on 11--14--01. These were superior to straight runs of equal-length OTA on digital. The only way I have been able to improve this design is to add an MFSC ferrite ring clamp of 415/645 Ohm impedance (inner diameter of 5mm) to the two cable leads near the output end. The resultant HF damping in the MHz region accelerated the rise time of the signals and improved the dynamics. I will experiment a little more with ferrite rings next week.
I should probably report, given my "overkill" atttitude towards Stratos power cables, that the filaments of one of my VAIC 520B power tubes are now burned out. I do not think that the Stratos power cables I was using shortly before this happened contributed to the burn-out of the tube, since I had been overheating it for about six months to compensate for microphonics. Just a word of warning: Stratos cables in at least two applications (phono and power) have had a way of pointing up certain faults or weakness in my system that either I was aware of (but ignoring) or I was not at all aware of.
Bwhite, let your OTA cables break in for at least 120 hours (better 200 hours) before you judge them. I too noticed "something missing" when I replaced the Statements with OTA, and the "missing piece" was probably what you refer to as (NBS house) "colorations." I prefer to run these two cables apart from one another, rather than mix them. Like dekay says, I would probably keep the extra Stratos wire and connectors. In my case, I needed extra connectors to keep up with the experiments I wanted to conduct with OTA. I used up 100 meters of Stratos wire in 6 weeks.

has the furor over the OTA cables died?

Thanks "B" and Slawney for the updates. If I can swing another kit after "things" settle on the homefront I will consider hooking up satelite speakers in our bedroom (which would be much less expensive than using a separate system), thus the "long run" query. Slawney, glad to hear that Richard's "loops" and 1:2 ratio worked out in your setup as well. Richard is definately "out there" in a good way. LOL.

Styx: "Furor" hardly describes this product's following, with but a handful of online users/owners sharing notes. What was it that you actually meant to say? Please spit it out in a pattern that I can understand.

As previously mentioned, I have been experimenting with ferrite rings and cylinders on OTA this week. Apparatus and procedure: the full range of MFSC rings from MEC were acquired, and attached to different points in the cable infrastructure. Observations: a little extra speed, and resolution when attached to digital cables. A little less noise when attached to power cables and DC hook-ups. A little extra sparkle and purity when attached to all cables downstream from a filter-less DAC (without alias filtering) perhaps due to dampening of high-frequency modulation (which can have a damaging effect on some power amps and speakers/crossovers). Upon installing these ferrite rings there was an immediately rewarding combination of air and presence, of crisper and even less blurred transients, and increased detail, clarity, and definition. In many ways, I found this positive result surprising, given the failure of shielding to improve Stratos cables. However, since I have not tried out all combinations, I am still not so sure that some connections are not reacting adversely to this type of dampening treatment.

Slawney: Is there a website for MEC? I have not heard of them. I tried ferrite magnets a year or so ago with various cables (not the OTA) and found them to supress the HF's (less noise, but also less music). These were not high ticket magnets, but the ones used on wall warts, digital cameras and the like. I had an accident with the TT today which yanked the OTA IC's off of it and will be figuring out a better stress relief system tomorrow. I will also shorten the IC's, as much as possible, when doing the repair, but cannot swing the minute lengths that you are using. More urgency to the music would be nice with the budget Thorens/Grado combo that I am using. Hopefully shorter lengths will help to supply this. I can also cut the phono preamp to preamp leads down to 6" or so (might as well do it all @ one time). I have not tried IC's shorter than 24" before and this should be interesting.

"I tried ferrite magnets a year or so ago with various cables (not the OTA) and found them to supress the HF's (less noise, but also less music)."

Same here... I was trying various ferrites for years and never have gained results I was hoping for. I have them now attached to various appliances all over the place but none in my setup. YMMV.

Crap: I rewired the TT again today and am getting a low level hum in "both" channels (it was very silent before). I will completely redo it in a couple of weeks if I cannot trace it to a bad joint (hope that I did not screw up the tone arm cables, though it would be an excuse to replace them with something newer). Everything was the same this time (or so I thought) except that I shortened the length of both sets of analog IC's. I cannot hear the hum from a seated position @ normal listening volume, but the system was so quiet before that it should be again if things are done right.

I have completed the ferrite experiments this weekend. My conclusion? Used in moderation, these ferrite rings can reduce interference and have beneficial sonic effects in the following situations:
1.) on DC leads, esp. when on base and collector leads of transistors in preamps, amps, and digital circuitry. Using the smallest size MECs were sufficient for this.
2.) on OTA digital cables, the smallest size MEC (MSFC4EX 4-5 mmm dia.) positioned close to the plugs of the output end. This will hinder sliding of + and - cable against one another, and change the impedance of OTA protective tubing. The sonic improvement is noticeable esp. in the rise and fall of signals, and there are also noticeable improvements in clarity. I detected no negative losses in this application.
3.) another possible route of entry for ferrite rings is at the output end of the speaker cables. Speaker leads may happen to resonate at interfering frequencies and thereby interfereence potential. An 8-ft length of OTA speaker lead is resonant at approximately 30 MHz. Using one MFSC4EX ferrite ring each on + and - leads to speaker cabinets had about the same effect as an ENACOM loudspeaker device. But I imagine that this trick works best with properly stabilized amplifiers.
4.) The larger sizes of ferrite rings (up to MSFC10KEX and 13KEX) were used on OTA power cables with positive results. This was the only time I used the larger magnets. I had best results positioning them near the IEC or inside the chassis of the component when possible.
Of course, the optimum values of ferrite rings should be determined experimentally for each system. It took me a long time to find the right values for my system. Having many ferrite rings at hand, it was easy for me to play with different combinations. Using them on analog interconnects between components, there was a very noticeable loss in stage response, and I would not recommend the use of ferrite on Stratos analog interconnects at all. The ferrite rings act like a resistor, and excessive values of resistance can easily impair high-frequency and transient response. That is why I recommend moderation in ferrite use, and the smaller sizes to begin with.
Dekay, I do not know any MEC website: I ordered them from a German electronics supplier. Sorry to hear about your turntable accident. Shortening the length of your phono lead with OTA will bring some more urgency to your set-up, and probably differentiate your LP sound even further from your CD sound. However, as I well know, this arrangement can certainly expose certain problems with your existing set-up that were previously inaudible. In my own case, I had to resort to grounded Mu-Metal (high permeable Nickel Iron) shields and a completely reworked ground and power scheme. Good luck.

Hi Slawney:

The OTA phono cables worked fine before, I just messed up a connection and/or an internal tonearm cable. The tonearm cable should really be replaced anyway (it is pushing 25+ years old). We are talking a $100 TT here (Thorens TD165) so no big whoop. A local phile can also bail me out if I get in over my head, but I just want to learn to do the basics myself (sort of a new hobby whithin a hobby:-). I no longer use digtial IC's though may play with some ferrites on the speaker cable (have to dig them up first).

Dekay, sounds as if you accidentally "bridged" your tonearm with the minus signal from your cartridge. Thus nothing much to do except to repair the tone arm cable or isolate the tone arm from the ground signal.

Slawney: Just had a thought. Think that I will try a tiny "screw" barrier strip to trouble shoot the TT wiring. Might just leave it in (if I figure out the problem) as it will make it easier to try out different DIY IC configurations.

OK, so who is currently offering to sell dome of their extra cable - Id be intrested in maybe 20 ft for speaker cables and four 1-2 meter cables w/ 8 rca for IC's..... Let me know - Art

I recently discovered this thread, and, drawn to the enthusiasm shown by the various parties and desiring to end my quest for the perfect cable, I've plunged in and ordered the $600 Ota kit. And I really do desire to end my quest here, so I don't want to botch things up now that the kit has arrived. Perforce, some questions:

1. Has anyone found that the length of the cables makes any real difference? Folks talk about resistance, capacitance, and so on, and I'm wondering if I need to strive to keep ICs and speaker cables as short as possible.

2. I don't have a Cable Cooker or similar, and I wonder if I can break in the entire 50 meter length of cable most quickly by hooking up the entire length of it to one of my speakers (or half of it to each of my two speakers), before cutting it into appropriate lengths for ICs and speaker cables.

3. Is there directionality to the wire, i.e., should the signal run in the direction of the printing on the wire, or does it matter?

4. I'm still not clear on whether or not the Ota wire is desirable to use as a speaker cable for all frequencies when bi-wired, or if it should be used on the mid/tweeter only, with more of a garden-hose wire handling the woofer. Any well-formed opinions?

I appreciate the knowledge of many in this thread, and I look forward to responses!

Mark

Hey Smilemakr,The OTA sounds great.I should say that I also stuck in a 47 Labs Gaincard along with the OTA so it is not really a "controlled" situation regarding my following opinions.I probably should have left the Levinson in and proceeded in that manner.Oh well. I spoke with Yoshi at Sakura about speaker cable length and his advice was to keep 'em short.I mentioned Mapleshade speaker cables and the 8' length they like to keep as a minimum and he didnt budge on his advice.
My speaker cables are 5'long.Interconnects are 1'long.I am running only OTA.
I didnt determine directionality.I would like to know if it actually is directional also.
My understanding of this is if a wire runs a certain direction for a long enough than that is the direction that it ends up going.The directionality has been created by signal flow.I'm no technician(can you tell?)I didnt want to post until my break in was over but these things are starting to sound so good at 70 Hours I just couldnt hold back.Thanks Bwhite for the great deal btw!The OTA sounds wonderful.
This stuff has a WILD break in.It has been all over the place.Some evenings have been just great.I have also gone to bed scratching my head wondering where the "sound" would end up.A cooker would be nice.Be patient.You will be rewarded.I've heard the break in is 200 hours on interconnects.Not sure on that.The first pair of interconnects that I made didnt work.I didnt follow the example closely enough.I was freaking out.It sounded like I was using a puddle of spit for wire.My wife and dog left the room.Looking back it's funny to me now(not so funny then!).
I am not bi-wiring the OTA.The set of speaker cables that I pulled off were a bi-wired set(DH Labs Q10,woo hoo)I did make a jumper out of the OTA.I like the sound better now.I might try bi-wiring and replacing the internal wire on my Triangles later,who knows.
I apologize for the lack of adjectives regarding sound quality.How can this be described(by me anyway!),I mean really.It just sounds right.It's open ,finely detailed(incredible bass),micro this ,macro that;Its a joy to listen to.Or put it this way,I'm not looking for cable anymore.I appreciate the enormous amount of experience and knowledge that you guys have made available.It sure saved me a lot of time and money!I'm a happy camper.
I think it is a good idea to stick all of the OTA on at the same time.I wish I would have done my interior wiring on my speakers right away but now find myself hesitant to do anything that will slow down the break in process.Sorry for the long wind.

Dave,

Thanks for the info. After running the Purist Audio Design system break-in CD to one of my speakers for 40 hours or so with the entire 50 meters of Ota wire as the positive leg of the speaker cable, I went ahead and created speaker cables and interconnects. By the way, a 50-meter long speaker cable sounds awful, as you might expect! But cut into more reasonable lengths (about 10 feet long going from my EDGE solid-state amp to the woofers and 2 feet long from my Kora tube monoblocks to the mid and tweeter) the sound is already wonderful. The presentation is far more open, detailed and relaxing than the Tice cables I was using before. I changed the preamp to amp interconnects over to the Ota wire at the same time, so I'm sure that some of the improvement is due to the interconnects as well. I'm running out of the RCA plugs so I'll need to purchase more to complete the change-over.

Who would think that such a wimpy-looking wire (it hardly seems right to call it a cable) could produce such delight relative to the more impressive-looking stuff that is out there! What a find!

Hi OTA owners. I bought the OTA kit about six weeks ago and have been enjoying the cables since. I have three questions though.

I've found initial impressions good, certainly for the price. However, I still find that my old set up of Nordost SPM interconnects (RCA) and FIM Gold speaker cables were far better. I found the soundsage fuller, greater seperation of instruments and more transparency with my old cable set-up. This is not to say OTA has not been a great purchase - it's at least excellent value for the price compared to my old cable set-up. What I'm wondering is whether the cables will get that much better as they burn-in, compared to what I'm hearing now. I guess my OTA set curretnly has about 70 hours or so on them so far. I know for some people the cable search has ended with OTA - I can't say I feel that way just yet.

Also, I find that recently I'm hearing some noise from my system that wasn't there before. I turned my preamp and source off and the noise is still there - so I guess it's isolated to amps and possibly from the OTA speaker cables. I also find that the noise is only there in the evening. So, my second question is whether other OTA users have experienced anything similar. It could be because I recently sold my PS Audio 300 Powerplant and maybe the noise appeared after it's absense, so OTA's not to fault, or something else happened with the power in my house.

Finally, does it matter if the positive and negative sections of one channel of an OTA interconnect are an inch or so longer/shorter than their respective positive or negative counterpart? I've had to recut a couple of interconnects a couple of times, so part of the interconnect is a little longer than the other, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, I'd welcome any insights on OTA related noise issues, whether the cables really do shine given more burn-in and any potential issues with slight length differences for a given interconnect. I can be patient on the burn-in - I am just curious about other folks' experience. Thanks folks. By the way my system is as follows:
YBA CD1a Blue Laser CD Player (with 2 YBA diamond PCs)
Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp (Shunyata Sidewinder PC)
Blue Circle BC2 Hybrid mono amps (Shunyata Sidewinder PCs)
Audio Physic Virgo II Speakers.
All cables are OTA.

Thanks!

...does it matter if the positive and negative sections of one channel of an OTA interconnect are an inch or so longer/shorter than their respective positive or negative counterpart?

*I* don't think it matters and I don't think it's possible to get them the exact same length. As long as you keep it close, everything should be okay.

I have found OTA cables to be as quiet or more quiet than shielded cables. I also found them merely promising early on, but am surprised you are not noticing the superior pacing of the OTA as this is present throughout burn in. I certainly found them superior to SPM, but have not tried FIM Gold. If you remain unimpressed, I suggest you put your old interconnects back in first. The OTA as a speaker cable is much more difficult to beat.

The significant noise/buzz I was hearing with the OTA has dissipated as I've located the issue - the TV cable connection to my system via VCR to Preamp - a typical problem I guess. Anyway, now things are sounding far quieter. What got me confused was that when I swapped in Nordost SPM from pre to power in place of the OTA there was no noise/buzz. With the OTA back in place, the sound reappeared. I guess some cables like OTA may be more sensitive to such noise. Anyway, problem essentially solved now. Also, the cables are showing additional promise - fingers crossed they'll continue to improve. I wish I still had my FIM speaker cable so I could compare. The FIM really was so good.

Outlier: Ask Brulee. LOL. He replaced FIM with the OTA.

Dekay: I know - Brulee introduced me to the OTA. Still, I have fond memories of the FIM - just my experience/impression that the FIM had something special I'm not quite getting (yet) with the OTA. It's still getting better though. Also, the recent removal of my PS300 may have had a key role to play in the recent loss of that 'something'. I hope to get a Hydra at some stage soon, so that may put my system back in gear.

Hi Outlier - After 500 hours with OTA, I ended up going back to some very high end interconnects. While the OTA is good and even spectacular for its price (based on the cost of $600 to wire an entire system - not the material cost) I ultimately felt that the emotion of the music vanished when the OTA entered my system. I guess that OTA working a miracle for me was wishfull thinking. When I built my system, I purchased and tested countless interconnects - after about 6 months of testing/trial/error, I managed to find the right match and thus obtained a sonic flavor that I really enjoy and suits my system. The resulting sound is simply the best I can do with my existing components - unless of course there is a cable I do not know about.

When I removed the OTA and re-inserted my old interconnects, I felt so much better about my system.

Hi BWhite, I'm relieved to know I'm not the only one questioning the OTA's preeminence. Still, as you say, the OTA is at the very least an outstanding bargain compared to other offerings anywhere near it's price range. I wonder whether you can share with us what cable set-up you went with. I find myself tempted by the best from Tara Labs and Synergistic, not to mention NBS and Nordost, but I wonder whether there really is some sleeper cables that are expensive but can compete with the very expensive. Anyway, happy listening.

Hi Outlier, I have tried nearly everything within reason.. and when I say that, I mean most top end products. I currently use a Audio Note Kondo KSL between the CD player and preamp followed by NBS Statement between the pre and amplifier. I selected these cables above all others tested because of what they do in my system. Honestly, I haven't found a "giant killing" cable yet. The better cables always seem to be more expensive - go figure!!

From my experience most of the audio cables from various manufacturers which reside at the top of their line up are ALL quite good -they are just different. Which ones are best for a given system is simply a matter or personal preference, and system synergy. The only real way to find out which wones ork best for you would be to try 'em all... Unfortunately.

The OTA is a good cable but using it in a system comprised of 100% OTA didn't work for me. I did however have better success with the OTA as speaker cable than interconnect.

Bwhite: ahh, you've ended up where we started. I have been watching to see if you liked the OTA better than the hideously expensive NBS/KSL I pushed you towards - and had been feeling bad that you could have been just as happy with the OTA (which I haven't heard). Glad you still like the KSL/NBS combo. If you remember, I've also have the Audionote IC from CD to pre, and NBS Pro from pre to amp in this second system and found combo complementary. What happened to your feelings on the KSL spkr wire vs. OTA?

A lot of times a cable will do something that at first sounds great - usually appealing to that part of our minds that listens more analytically when we first sit down. Its much harder, and takes some real time listening, to discern those cables that also help us fall into the music, so to speak. Since we aren't thinking in those deeper listening spaces, its harder to then go back later and think about what was best; trying to think about a time when you weren't thinking is tough! And, takes time for the answer to come to you. That's why you should always live with a product for some time, why its dangerous to buy from a dealer based on short-term exposure, and why these threads are helpful in contacting others who have put in that time and reflection/contemplation on the products they have listened to.

Thank you, bwhite, and all of the others, for putting in the time with the OTA and letting us know about your experiences.

Hi Asa - The OTA vs. the KSL-SPc (copper) speaker cables is really no contest. While the OTA is decent, it lacks the feeling of the KSL. The OTA is pretty amazing though when you consider how much music comes through that little wire and the bass is very good. The reason I would suggest OTA as a good speaker cable is simply because of its neutral character - which would allow one to more easily fine tune the system with interconnects. In my case (tri-wire speakers) changing speaker cables is a MAJOR pain in the rear. The KSL has more body and weight than the OTA (which my speakers need) but remains quite neutral - clean - effortless.

Oh.. another thing I noticed with the OTA was the pace seemed odd to me. Perhaps others can comment. It seems a little too fast to be accurate.... any thoughts??

The KSL I am using between my CD and Preamp is the new KSL-LP1 which is actually a double run of Kondo's Silver AN-Vz repackaged.

Initially, I settled on NBS Statements for between the preamp and amps but - since I recently sold my source (Mephisto II) and switched to a Sony XA777ES which is a touch more detailed than the Mephisto and is a little more "electronic" in its tonality, I think I prefer a run of Stealth PGS between the amps and preamp. The Softer sounding and more organic Stealth PGS combined with the Sony is quite comperable to the softer sounding Mephiso with NBS Statements. Whereas the Sony and the NBS are not an optimal match in my system since they are just ever so slightly over the top in their combined presentation.

Using 100% OTA made it more difficult to get the right sound from my system.

OTA cables are so natural and neutral that they sometimes present how the rest of the system is bad. It's not the problem of OTA, it's the problem of poor source, amp or speakers.
Then, people put some thick, heavy, mega-buck cables and think that they get the "emotion" back.
OTA is "too fast"? No, OTA paces perfectly in my 47 labs/Essence setup. And it paces excellent in a non-47 labs systems.
Cables that “manufacture” sound are, obviously, good complement to the same kind of electronics & speakers and everything together works “perfectly” to mask the music and to enter hi fi.
Fortunately, I avoided that!

Ivo

Ivo from your post, I gather you are very enthusiastic about OTA and have had good results. I am happy for you.

Maybe my system just isn't good enough for OTA. :)

Bwhite: puncto primal, puncto final. By returning to the AN/NBS combination, it seems that these expensive cables cannot be surpassed by OTA in your system. (BTW, your Lamm amplifiers are probably "good enough for OTA" ;-) Peronally, I have been proceding systematically through a series of OTA ferrite experiments for the last few weeks. To cut a long story short, the changes inflicted on the system through ferrite manipulation did not seem to me an unambiguous improvement upon closer listen. The most annoying aspect at points was the infiltration of the magnetic field inside digital components, and even onto speaker connection posts, as well as resistance changes on OTA, and problems with maintaining its clarity and pacing. At this point, I think I get the best results with the ferrites attached to non-audio component cables (lamps, tel. answering machine,...), reaching the same conclusion as sead did long ago. As far as OTA power cables, they are just as neutral as OTA signal cables, and with my rather poor mains I am back to the old glory of NBS Statement PCs for three crucial connections, with OTA still on three AC connections. This OTA/NBS power cable combo actually works very well, the OTAs being cut to the size appropriate for best component positioning, the NBSs being fitted in as best they can and creating an amelioration to the mains current, more extension, smoothness, volume, immediacy, and engendering a sound stage in which the listener believes that they hear events residing very deep in the recording. I am very happy with the OTA analog interconnects: when I replaced the NBS Statement interconnects with OTAs, I heard--for one thing--an unexpected improvement in bass definition and contour. I noticed the same with the OTA speaker cable: the amps in my collection (the most powerful of which is 35 watts) were working hard just to drive the NBS speaker cable, let alone the speakers themselves. For this reason (and others) I agree with Redkiwi that OTA speaker cable is hard to beat. It relays "sforzandos" much better than NBS speaker cables, and, overall, sounds through OTA speaker cables have the exactitude they have in dreams, with only the glistening due to the sound alone, just like the world itself, so integrally there, the sound stage a "parallel universe," and a form of illusion. But as soon as one enters the field of personalized judgement on this score, argument becomes insane, demented, weird, extravagant, and pointless given the different requirements of all of our systems. Just to satisfy myself on this score, I am going to replace the OTAs with the NBS Statement interconnects and speaker cables after three months of non-use and see what better satisfies me: OTA or NBS. I cannot help but believe that the operation of switching cables to compare them in order to believe finally "It's true! Cable X is a superior cable with my audio system!" is a permanent, pathetic, physical sonic demand in me, a kind of escape from a congenital and metaphysical incompletion, and dissatisfaction:-).

Hi Slawney - Thanks for cheering me up! For a minute there I thought I needed to sell the LAMMs and look for something else which might be good enough for the OTA. What do you think? Are Tenors good enough? :)

Let us know what you think about going back to NBS...

BWhite: Your system looks pretty good to me. Lamm and Syrah (yum yum:-). Albert tried a pair of my OTA IC's, quite some time ago, on a Sony 9000 player and felt that they lacked weight in comparison to his standard IC's. I did not have enough spares to allow him to try the OTA on the analog setup as he requires two of everything. This is system dependent as I have not experienced any thinning of the sound in the various setups that I have used so far, but would not be surprised if this were to eventually happen. How is it working in the HT system (with longer runs)? Still no problems after having had a chance to listen to it for a while? I am still interested in running some satellite speakers in the bedroom (once I get back to work) as this would be more cost effective than maintaining a separate system, plus we really don't want any gear in there (a small TV is our limit). I figure the runs would have to be approx. 40' long unless I decide to channel out the floor, then 25' would do.