Review: Holo May (L2) DAC and the Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 DAC Compaired

@sns Are you just referring to Stereophile's measurement section, where there's a reference to the okto vs. the Weiss (similar implied resolution)? In the subjective portion of the okto, the Weiss is simply mentioned as one of the best-sounding and best-measuring dacs he had reviewed up to that point, but I don't see a subjective okto vs. Weiss comparison in that review.

Subjectively, I found the Weiss in my system to be an impressive-sounding DAC but not to my taste. The resolution was SO good, it was like watching a 4K blu-ray on a state-of-the-art TV. You can see all the pores and lines on each actor's face, in a way that you never would in real life. I call that level of resolution "hyper" real, rather than simply real, and it took me out of the music. YMMV.

@metaldetektor

Interesting observation on the Weiss. Maybe the takeaway is that on a highly resolving set up, the Weiss could add too much of a good thing. It might be better with a system tailored for it specifically.

@Melm, 

Thank you for all the information you took the time to post and for your reply to my post! I will be re-reading yours and others posts on this thread to be certain to glean as much knowledge as possible from all the words of wisdom. 
All the Best 
Agentwja

@agentwja 

Thanks for the kind words.  There are many fine DACs out there at all sorts of prices. I'm sure you'll find something suitable.  There are many folks around here who know much more than I do.  Don't hesitate to ask if you need to.  Happy New Year.

@Melm

i ended up purchasing a second hand MERASON FREROT DAC the the external power supply.  I am very happy with the sound quality. It was so easy to setup and it doesn’t have filters to fiddle with which is fine by me. I wanted a simple but high quality DAC and I got it. It replaced my ancient BelCanto DAC2 which one Audiogon member called a rotary phone! I found a BelCanto DAC with an external power supply for sale in Canada and would have went with it except the seller would not do PayPal. As it happens I then read about the Merason and decided to buy it. So my setup is complete (for now) and I am thrilled to be enjoying the best quality music that I ever have!!

The recent establishment of a US dealer/distributer for the Musetec adds an additional dimension to the comparison.

Does anyone know if this dac will accept DSD (SACD) from an SACD transport via I2S such as the PS audio perfect wave SACD transport?

@goose Yes it has HDMI and RJ45 I2s inputs.

Online manual here:

@goose You're issue will be pin outs, no standardization in I2S. You will either need custom cable built or DDC such as Singxer SU-6.

For those of you looking for a US Dealer, I just wanted to let you know that I am here. I really like this DAC, so I became a dealer.

midwestaudiophile.com

@midwesternaudio Hi please could you tell me if the Musetec 005 can handle a pro digital signal from my Aurender N20 which is 10v I believe as opposed to normal 5v and are there any sonic benefits that you know of?

Just wary of trying it myself.

lordmelton I will find out

@lordmelton  The Musetec 005 will play all the digital outputs from the Aurender N20, and I believe the N20 outputs are standard.

@midwesternaudio Hi the N20 has consumer and professional digital level outputs accessed through the app.

I changed to pro and it's night and day. More dynamic and wider competing with the USB again...aargh!!!

Given a number of recent posts on this very subject perhaps this thread could use a lift.  

The May verses the 005 seems to be discussed on a few threads here. I just posted this on one of those threads:

@Technorob said: “I currently have both 005 and May. The May just edges it in most areas by a small margin, with the exception of layer separation, stage width and depth where the May is significantly better.”

I will throw in my thoughts. I can definitely see Technorob’s point of view on “layer separation, stage width and depth” being different on the May, but not better. (To my old ear, the other aspects were not “just edged[s]” out by the May but  too close to call.)

It is a matter of perspective, double entendre intended. Many, if not most audiophiles, highly value layer separation, stage width and depth. The underlying frame of reference for most is probably amplified non-acoustic electronically produced music that exists only in recordings, not in real space. Big clear layering and sound stage sounds great with a lot of non-accoustic recorded music and will be preferred by many.

In my opinion, the May does, compared to the 005,  provide an unreal feel of spacial separation and distance at the same time. This is like seeing an image get bigger as you walk further away. As a real concert goer, this is a distortion, even though many will love the effect. It also gains separation by missing natural sound between instruments

I will explain. My perspective is what I hear at a live unamplified concert. If you want maximum separation of instruments and voices, you would have to be very close to the stage if not actually on it. Even then the sound would only be sharply separated and layered if you were listening with your head physically in between instruments. 

Realistic perspective is similar in both sight and sound. When you walk closer to a destination the visual details in you visual field naturally become more visible and separate. It’s the same with sound. When you walk closer to the stage, the sound field gets bigger and instruments sound further apart in space. There is some layering partly depending on your elevation, but nothing in the realm of “audiophile” layering. Sound naturally blends together in the real world. Yes, 3-d palpability exists in the real world, but not in the way many audiophiles love or imagine. 

I said this in my review:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-holo-may-l2-dac-and-the-musetec-audio-lks-audio-mh-da005-da/post?highlight=dbb%2Bcharcoal&postid=2272784#2272784

. . . I said in the review I would report back after a few weeks. I hesitated to do that because the more I listened the more it confirmed my initial impressions stated in the review. I would not change my basic conclusions. I have very little to add. I would add this. Over time I felt I was missing musical information when I listened to the May. At times the May seemed to allow more space between instruments or musicians which at first I believed to be a good thing. I came to realize that this was because the May was omitting sound to get this effect. Much like an artist using charcoal shade to create a 3d effect. I decided to sell the May. Not because it is objectively inferior, but it does not satisfy my preference for realism which comes from concert going experience. Different strokes for different folks.
 

@dbb

Any chance  you can recommend a US made DAC with sonics similar to the May?

@stuartk I don't of any.

OK. Thanks. I was just curious-- I have no reason to get rid of my Aqua. 

BTW, I wish all audio reviewers emulated your approach! 

Where did you guys order the MH-DA005 from? I can only find it in stock from Shenzhen Audio and Linsoul. Apos OOS. Don't know how comfortable I am ordering from these Chinese stores.

Also just saw the announcement of the new AKM 4499EX chip which looks quite impressive. May wait for new DACs with this chip before jumping on Musetek bandwagon.

Any help appreciated.

Midwest Audio is the USA dealer for Musetec, and currently has the MH-DA005 listed on another sales site for $3,199. They're at 55855 Breden Rise Lane in Mishawaka, IN 46545 Tel.: 574-329-1850 .

Thanks!

@raddoctor

Also just saw the announcement of the new AKM 4499EX chip which looks quite impressive. May wait for new DACs with this chip before jumping on Musetek bandwagon.

I’m not sure there’s any "bandwagon" here.

One thing some of us think we have learned over the years is that the chip matters much less than we used to think.* What matters far more are considerations like the power supply and the analog circuit, that is, what happens when the signal leaves the chip. The ES9038PRO chip has been used in what turn out to be DACs of all different qualities ranging from the forgettable to the outstanding. The same, I think, has been true of chips made by other companies.

Be certain of one thing though, whatever DAC you choose, there will always be a better one offered in a few years. That march will go on forever with DACs and with everything else in the technical world..

*An exception perhaps for sigma-delta v. R2R which are thought by some to represent accurate v. pleasant sounding results, this being a very close call in well executed designs.

Did not mean bandwagon as a bad thing. Now that I reread it it does not sound so nice. Apologies for that. Regardless I have read a lot about what you said and it is very true. So now I am taking delivery of a Musetek from USA Audiomart. Pretty excited to hear how this thing sounds compared to the Topping D90 I have now. Seems like great bang for the buck as far as hifi goes.

@raddoctor 

Thanks for your response.

That's great.  Do let everyone know what you think.  There's no published review; there's no advertising.  Just a bunch of guys who bought the unit and are sharing impressions.

oh my!! jesus you have get such brilliant comparision..

and nice wrote artical.

very professional although you said you are not ..

thank you and your discription give out a lot of advice and nice view of the 2 product.

well done!

Fascinating description. It is hard to think of a DAC with signal-to-noise, linearity, distortion, and other measurements that far surpass human hearing - such as the May - as "omitting" the details of a recording. There must be something about the nature of these presentations that causes the ear-brain to perceive one as "missing data." Is this difference in perspective similar for headphones and speakers?

@batvac2

You might find this post written for the Musetec MH-DA005 thread to be relevant to the "missing data" issue you raise here.

@Chaos333

Thank you for your kind words.

@Batvac2

Scientifically explaining how the a dac with excellent S/N misses subtle detail is beyond my pay grade. I listened through speakers, but I would speculate that speakers or headphones would be the same. To my ear, the 005 just had better resolution. This was evident only with  music that contained fine subtlies. Not all music does.

.

@Stuartk

Thanks for the compliment.

Experiences with DACS will greatly vary by each individual since we all have different levels of equipment and cables! Some are much more resolving than others. We also each have different hearing and sound preferences that are important to ourselves! Even the source and type of music we listen to can impact your judgment and opinions of equipment. Try different DACS and buy the one that sounds best to YOU. No single person's opinion is 100% accurate for everyone.

@Willywonka

I agree. My review is the most useful if we share similar musical tastes.

What's funny is if you look at forums on DACS over $3000, you will find that hardly anyone will criticize the DAC they bought. You always have a couple negative reviews but usually very few. We have all heard of expectation bias, but we also have ownership bias. People can make generalized reviews that are often somewhat accurate but, in the end, we have to make that judgement for ourselves in our system. It's too bad we can find a store that sells ALL DACS and will offer them for demo :). 

Now that it has been compared to the Bricasti M1SE MDX, this review becomes even more relevant in placing the Musetec solidly within the community of DACs.

+1

This is an update on the Musetec 005 DAC. Jinbo, the owner and designer at Musetec has this response about the measurements at ASR:

Also I wanted to let you know that if want to elevate the performance of the Musetec to get ultimate performance, you could use the I2s input which allows a pure digital stream to go directly to the DAC chip giving a more transparent sound. Something like the Jay's Audio transport connected with an HDMI cable to the I2s input will provide exceptional performance.(I have tried the Jay's Audio with other DACs over I2s and there wasn't the big leap in clarity and transparency that you get with the Musetec 005 I2s input.) 

Or if you have a server that outputs USB, you can either connect it directly with a USB cable or you can use the LKS 100 USB converter to switch to I2s if you desire, which will give you better performance provided you use good cables.

Thank you,

Jason at Midwest Audio

Quite a well written review it must be said & most if not everyone would be in agreement. Just recently I came across this review while doing some research into various dac offerings in the marketplace at this price point. Then while looking at the Apos website, I proceeded to plumb the depths of the dac section to find any hidden gems lurking there. Aside from the usual suspects , topping & matrix etc, there was one , the musetec audio da005, which drew my attention, as I had never seen this company before. Not to mention it seemed like a dac in my own desired price range and performance category without breaking the bank.

However there was one distinct problem : virtually zero online reviews for this dac in question. So hard to believe given it’s not inexpensive price at approx. $3.5k. Surely the company making this dac must be aware of such low publicity, with obviously significant budget considerations to cause some concern. Then along came an Audiosciencereview article panning this musetec dac as one of the very worst performers in their history or reviewing dac products. Given the absence of any positive online reviews from owners or pro reviewers to counter the claims of ASR, the musetec company should have some real cause for concern. Most any business would it must be said.

Next, out of nowhere, we get the most impressively exhaustive review of the musetec dac which on the face of it does seem conspicious by it’s presence. Generally, the overall quality of writing, even exceeding many professional reviewers Yet for a product with little to no recognition from an fairly obscure company in China making at best, some average performing audio electronics. Not even a product with some cult following status among audiophiles. So then how would a seasoned audiophile such as the OP make the decision to purchase this dac , quite frankly given all we know , which is really little, save for a scathing ASR review ?

I think it not improbable to proffer that the OP has some affiliation with the company making the musetec dac or their distributor here in the USA.. Again, given how poorly received in general the dac had been for a flagship dac , something needed to be done. An appropriate allout attempt to minimize more financial losses by generating more interest and potential sales. No better way than a showstopper style review. Needless to say he/they produced the goods in that particular regard.

@sagur80
I hope the OP will respond to you in time. Just hought I’d set the record straight. Interest in the Musetec began at head-fi a while back. The OP and I were among the early users, each of us had the manufacturer’s earlier DAC the LKS 004. I can assure you that the OP bought this DAC from the factory with his own cash, as did I. I don’t know why anyone could fairly accuse the writer of this review, focusing on classical music no less, of having an "affiliation" with a tiny Chinese company. Apparently the small company can sell all it can make, mostly in Hong Kong.

There are a great many products discussed on these pages that get very little attention from the audio press. It is word of mouth. Some of us have more faith in this method of discovering fine products than in a review. The reviewers have their own reasons for pushing products that are not very good. And they never write about very small companies. As for the Musetec 005, it has been the subject of one of the most extensive person to person threads on any DAC in Audiogon with almost 1500 posts and 150,000 views. It is here. If you make the effort to go through it, you will find a substantial number of positive user reports. Some think it to be a $10,000 DAC selling for $3200. Just look at the parts used. See my response to the ASR review here.  The fact is any competent engineer can make a DAC that measures great.  Sounding great?  That's as much an art!

@melm..So, it does appear the OP and youself were already discussing the da005 on other online forums prior to the @dbb review. I appreciate clearing that much up. Also, apparently no affiliation to the Musetec company on your part or the OP,

My own experience with this dac is evolving as we speak : namely just two short videos on youtube, one of which makes me want to delve further in exploring the dac , while the other in a video using search  "Musetec 005 DAC - same song as MAY and T plus DAC" by channel owner Timothy was in all honesty some of the worst rendition of female vocals ever .....please comment if you have the chance. As I do find the the component treatment of female vocals as the most telling of all to my ears and correlatively to the overall dac quality in general. 

Next , check out  "Musetec 005 (LKS) DAC - oh wow" by Timothy again. Imo very rarely can a dac under $8k and even more produce the same degree or realism, accuracy and emotive power than shown here. 

One last thing , can you or the OP comment on the onset of aural fatigue while listening to the da500 ?........Any comments in that regard as my listening sessions tend to be far from brief or few and far between. 

@sagur80 Thank you for your kind words on my review. For the record, it was posted before the Audioscience review and therefore couldn't be a rebuttal. 

As @melm has said volumes have been written on this dac. I suggest, if you have the stamina, you read through them. I cannot comment on aural fatigue because I have never experienced it with this dac. I wrote my review because I thought it was, at the time, an unknown gem that deserved consideration.

I listened to the Timothy video. I just don’t think you can judge sound quality very effectively through youtube.

@sagur80

At your suggestion I spent about five seconds with "Timothy" and my only conclusion is that Timothey has an iPhone with which he can create youtube videos. I like, though, that he likes the Musetec. However as dbb wrote, you can’t tell anything from a youtube video.

As for aural fatigue, there is none for me with the Musetec; I can listen for hours to long classical works. If I’m not listening to digital I have an analog rig with an all tube phono pre that I can listen to for extended periods as well. Interesting that you raise this point now because among the last few posts on the "Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC" thread a comparison is made with another very well regarded European made DAC selling for about the same price as the Musetec. He preferred the Musetec because he is, "very sensitive to any treble or upper mid grain." If you go through the user’s posts in that thread I think you’ll come across many that write that they can listen for hours.

Thank you both for the generous and above all gracious response to my initial concerns as outlined earlier in the latter part of this thread. After much research and analysis, the two contenders for my next dac purchase will be the Denafrips Venus ii and the Musetec DA005. Both being quite strong in the mid range and quite a few mentions in various forums, audiogon included, of impressive delivery of vocals and acoustic music. Re: youtube videos, my office audio setup with very good room treatment is quite remarkable in it's ability to serve up sound akin to a small studio monitor setup. In many ways becoming my reference demo facility before purchases for my home audio room. With that in mind, the song from youtube , second one mentioned in my post was endlessly impressive , most notably displaying traces of the sublime airiness factor most common in more expensive dacs. I have yet to find that same quality with any audition video of the Denafrips Venus ii. 

@dbb Succinctly put how dimming the lights and letting the music flow with the Musetec to capture the essence of a live vocal performance. Same page, line and paragraph in that regard as my preferred music environment outside of a live experience. 

@melm I await with interest finding more on the European dac compared with the Musetec dac in the original thread. 

At this stage of the game, these sensitive ears can conclude the Holo May is well behind the Musetec , most notably in retaining that odious digital signature sound at all turns. Never once captivating or seducing the listener as the Musetec does with ease. 

@dbb

Many thanks for this. Looking forward to your next review!

@stuartk Your welcome.  It was a fun project and gratifying to get so many positive responses. I don't think I'm likely to do another soon given the expense involved in acquiring equipment for review. 

@dbb 

Understood.

nevertheless, there's a possibility your approach may serve as an example/template for others.