Reasonable moving coil cartridge


I am looking to purchase a Music Hall 1.5 TT. The selling point being a removable headshell. 

That being said, i am looking for a reasonably priced moving coil cartridge to use on the MH. My preamp is the Bryston 1B- MC. I am not looking to refinance my house. Something in the neighborhood of $200-300 USD. I dont need to worry about a moving coil amplifier as the MC comes with one built in.

thanks
128x128jcipale

Showing 10 responses by chakster

Both of them ( DL-301 II & DL-110 ) have Elliptical tip, it's ok for about 600 hrs of use and then re-tip with drop of glue or it must be re-cantilevered, but for this price a better MM cartridges can be acquired with Stereohedron Tip (twice as much stylus life span and user replaceable in a few seconds).  

The only benefit of aluminum cantilever is pressure-fitted diamond, when you remove pressure-fitted diamond and glue another one instead it is degradation (a typical re-tipping process), even if the diamond is new. So it's better to change the whole cantilever (can take up to 3-5 month) or to buy another cartridge (better idea in this situation with MC limitation). 




$200-300 USD for MC cartridge? I think it’s impossible to find any good one at this budget, you need a LOMC, not a HOMC as suggested above.

High Output MC have more coil winding, they are always inferior in comparison to the Low Output MC, so my advice is to stay away from the HOMC.

Each time you think about cheap MC cartridge remember that you will have to re-tip it after 600hrs (if the tip is elliptical, but on cheap MC there is only conical or elliptical), the cost of re-tip is more than the cost of your cartridge, you’re buying another cartridge every 600 hrs or you send yours for re-tip, they got you. You trying to save money on low budget MC, but actually you will pay more. That’s the trick.

Most of the cartridges at this price range will be mediocre, because most likely you can find only Conical tip at this price, Aluminum cantilever. The price is even lower than awful Denon 103.

You’d be better with MM or MI cartridges, but still the budget is too low, i think $350-450 is enough to buy absolutely perfect MM with advanced stylus profile and great sound (much better than most of the LOMC at this price). And you can replace the stylus by yourself.

In my opinion the best you can get for about $350-450 is MM, as pointed out in another thread Stanton/Pickering with STEREOHEDRON stylus are the best among low budget MM. Read.

Another favorite is Pioneer PC-1000 mkII with beryllium cantilever.
Victor cartridges are great, for some of them brand new JICO SAS styli available.

You can also look for Audio-Technica with MicroLine stylus and Garrott with Micro Scanner MKII MM cartridges.
But make sure you’re buyin’ phono cartridge with great stylus profile (definitely not conical) and it must be nude diamond, not bonded.


Note that although these "esoteric" styli types (line contact, shibata etc), are highly touted, some are EXTREMELY finnicky to set up to get their angles correct.


I do not agree, correct set up of any cartridge is important, once you can set up a cartridge you can do it with another one. Manufacturer recommendation for Shibata or LineContact or whatever is the same (tonearm must be parallel to the record surface when the needle is on the record, azimut must be correct). Since you have protractor with your arm there is nothing to worry about. What else? A tonearm with VTA on the fly is great, fine tuning by ears.

Honestly i have never experienced any difficulty to set up the most complicated profiles like Ortofon Replicant (similar to F.Gyger and VdH) for example.

Do not afraid of the styli :)) And practice, it is easier than anyone can expect, i do not use any special devises, just Dr.Feickert protractor and ortofon digital gauge.
@cleeds

No difference in alignment of the Elliptical or LineContact or whatever profile. I do the same steps when i need to mount a cartridge and align it (no matter what type). Conical is less sensitive to alignment and this is the reason it was used by professionals (radiostations, discotheque etc) where people have no time to align anything and where spare styli must be very cheap to replace when it’s broken.

Cartridge designed for use on a headshell which is flat, in this position the stylus tip already aligned correctly, tonearm designed for use in parallel to the record surface when the needle is on the record, headshell is a part of the tonearm. If headshell, tonearm are parallel to the record then cartridge is also parallel to the record and then the stylus is just fine in this position. This is a starting point. But fine-tuning is always possible!

Everyone can check it without any special devices.

If someone prefer to spend time aligning a cartridge with some computer devises, microscopes, analyzers, apps ... instead of enjoying the records after visual alignment with some nice protractor, then i think this category of people belong to a very small group of audiophiles.

I trust my ears and this is my advice for anyone, especially for those people who ask about cartridges here, if they can’t decide about cartridges and someone willing to drop all that BS on them about some special devices, some difficulties in alignment of everything on turntable, i want to say this is all false in my opinion. It is easy to learn and very easy to use a turntable, cartridge etc. Loads of tutorials are on youtube for free (Mr.Fremer even released a DVD about it, but it’s not free).

It is very important to buy a cartridge with the best profile, not with the worst profile! This is a progress in analog reproduction and millions of people using those cartridges and styli, because they are better in terms of sound (also better in terms of recordwear). If someone prefer to use the worst stylus on the planet (like conical) just because this type of stylus does not require alignment at all (it’s conical) then i don’t think they have much interest in analog or high fidelity.

Everyone can use and align the most complicated stylus following step by step tutorial and verify by ears. It makes sense to use them on better tonearms.

Not everyone can detect a tiny difference in VTA and VTF, also not everyone can detect any difference between alignment methods. That’s for sure.

But everyone can hear the difference between Conical tip and MicroRidge tip on the same cartridge. Even if the Micro Ridge is not 100% perfectly aligned (in theory) it will be a better profile in detail retrieval, soundstage, resolution, depth etc. I’ve heard it million times in the headphones using two identical average turntable connected to the average phono preamp. In the main system the difference is huge even for my guests (not audiophiles).

Fairy tales about difficulties in alignment of the cartridges with advanced profiles must be ignored. Having over 50 cartridges my experience is different. Advanced stylus profile is always better than conical and elliptical if you can compare them on the same MM cartridge (where you can swap then in a 10 seconds) to make sure. 
I do had an opportunity to compare on the same design several stylus profiles on LOMC.


How can you do that with LOMC? Please explain.
You cartridge must be re-tipped if you want to add another profile, retip is degradation in sound, this is why your experience is not positive. 

So I can agree sometimes fairy tales about superiority of advanced profiles can be ignored also.

Give us an example when Conical profile is better than anything else, or please recall an elliptical that better than MicroRidge or similar profile. 

Profile is foreseen by design and engineer. SPU Wood A for example has conical stylus.

SPU is oldschool cartridge designed in the 40's, maybe you like cactus stylus or those steel needles for gramophones too ?

I owned SPU Classic with conical tip and this is an awful cartridge just liek Denon 103, next one was SPU Spirit LTD with Elliptical and it was much better cartridge, last one was SPU Royal G mkII with Replican 100 and this is the best SPU i have ever heard in my system. 

If you want to re-tip your MC cartridge every 600 hrs you can use Elliptical, life span of the conical tip is shorter. But if you want to use your SPU for 2000 hrs then Replicant 100 is the best (the finest quality). 

What is your argument ? 

I want to tell you that nobody uses a conical tip anymore on any high-end cartridges, it is inferior profile by default, it's obvious for any cartridge designer today and it was obvious even in the 70's/80's. Since JVC invented Shibata. 

Even Ortofon claimed that conical is the worst stylus profile and you can read it in their books, catalogs etc. Check this for example. 

If you don't know the basics about diamond profiles please find a valid source and read about it. 
Ortofon Quintet Red: $274.00 (USD) - It was a toss-up between this and the Denon. But since the bulk of my music is jazz bass/guitar, this seemed like a best choice.

No it’s not the best choice at all.
There is NO such thing as a cartridge for certain genre of music, this is a pure snake oil and everyone who telling you "this cartridge is better for this genre or that genre" know nothing about cartridges.

I think you made a bad choice with Quintet Red (Elliptical) and it will not be better than MM (especially those MM with advanced profiles).

You ortofon will be dead/worn after 600 hrs of use (like like any MC with Elliptical tip), not sure how are you gonna fix it then and do you realize the cost of retip ?

Why not just buy a better cartridge with replaceable stylus and advanced profile ?

It's quite often when people trying to help with information about weak point of the cartridge design or styli, but people just buying mediocre cartridges ignoring everything, just because some reviewer said it's great. What a kindergarten.


Chakster,
Somehow in Lithuania we do have 2 masters who works with cartridges. I do know both in person. And had an opportunity to listen of some of their works. One of them is my friend and once he did prototype in two versions one nude 0,5 mil conical another is contact line. Manufacturer was the same Namiki as I do recall from my memories. And CL version was inferior from the first shot. So it's not so easy to get into. It's like a cuisine in which you are extracting taste with different additives.

I want to say i love Lithuania and been there many times in Vilnius, Klaipeda, Nida.

As i expected you compared re-tipped samples, so no comments. 

And if you'll look into low compliance and LOMC cartridges sometimes cuisine leads conical profile. Perfect example is Denon DL103 with 0.65 mil conical. Weakness of Denon DL 103 isn't the conical tip itself but as it mass product it has huge variation of quality from sample to sample. Some of these are really good ones, some of them are bad ones. All is the matter of taste, like in cuisine.

In my opinion a conical tip can satisfy people who are using some horn systems where the extended highs of the modern high-end cartridges can be too much for the nature of horns. In this situation rolled-off highs is a compromise. In conventional systems people normally looking for extensions.   

As about lifetime of tip you are right. But better to check is it nude polished one or bonded one, it gives better quality idea. I won't change 0.5 mil nude conical into 0.2x0,7 elliptical bonded in any case.

Bonded is for very low quality cartridges
Fremer always goes to extreme with his alignments, his method is not for everyone, his own system is also not for everyone with that $30k SAT tonearm, i remember hot discussion about this tonearm alignment null points etc (some members claimed they are way off).   

Hana made by Excel Sound who released so many cartridges back in the days, no one mentioning them. They made cartridges for SAEC, Argent and many other companies in the 70s/80s.
My MC "Rabbit Hole" is getting a few broken DL-103 carts and modifying them. I have a DL-103S with a fine elliptical and a wood bodied DL-103 with a hypereliptical sitting here to play with.

Could you summarize the cost of the broken cartridge, new tip, new cantilever, and service fee ? 

In my opinion this is how most of the people invest more and more into Denon 103 step by step, upgrading this cartridge with modern cantilever, advanced stylus tip, new body. This is all fine, but the total cost is equal to a better (different) cartridge with better stylus tip and cantilever (and even better cartridge body). 

I always ask why you have to bother with DL-103 and all the time consuming upgrades if you can simply buy a better cartridge for equal price ?  
Why not look for a gently used cartridge you’ll get much more for your money. I’ve had great luck with a few I’ve bought.

Absolutely, i never buy NEW, even slightly used sample (for 20hrs for example) of the brand new cartridge will be 30% cheaper on the used market. And all the top models are the best for the money (even slightly used from trustworthy sellers). With MM/MI anyone can find NOS or NEW stylus later if the sound signature of the slightly used cartridge is what we really like.