I've been a member of our community for a little more than a year and a half and in that time I have seen a slow degradation of quality in the Classified Section of audiogon - particularly in regard to LP's. I know it's a "free" listing and maybe that's the problem. There are some audiophile listings of quality items but mostly it's just junk. I think it might be an idea to set some standards for these listings. Audiophile-quality records only or maybe near-mint listings only. I'm just tired of wading through scores of "crap" listings...if I want to do that I can always log on to eBay...
This is something I too have been pondering and can't offer any suggestions for improvement. One man's crappy record is another's favorite. Is that a defensive statement? Hardly. Do you mean that only 180 gram or heavier vinyl is all that should be offered? Not. Perhaps some type of genre filtering might help.
I have a lot of excess records that are in exceptional condition that need to find a home and I've been hesitant to list them for several reasons. Listing them seperately seems like a nightmare as the seller but viewing whole collections (especially with a dial-up) seems like too much of a hassle for a buyer. Selling the whole lot for one price? I don't think buyers would take that seriously and I'd be busy answering fruitless e-mails unless they were priced as a near give away.
I'm inclined to keep things the way they are but the ability to filter by genre, artist or title would be nice. I would doubt that for a "free service" the staff would be willing to write the necessary database code. I personally would be willing to contribute a one time donation to cover the cost of the work. Anyone else ready to chip in, say $5?
I appreciate your sentiments and can only think of the one suggestion.
Aw, I don't know. Sometimes I might agree to a certain extent. BUT, one person's crap is another's great find that they've been hunting. I've bought a couple off here that I've not found elsewhere which were sentimental favorites from many years ago. Some would probably consider it pop junk, but I was glad to have found it.
One persons "audiophile" label is another's over-hyped, surface noisy garbage. I've heard some standard, even non-first issue, LP's that are much better sonically than certain "audiophile" re-releases.
Yeah, there might be some wading to go through. Same is true of you go to a used vinyl store. Sometimes half the fun is in the looking. Sometimes if you're willing to spend the time, you're the one that gets the pearl.
Now, if we're talking about the pricing of LP's by some on this site......Oy!
It has gotten ridiculous. How far does one have to scroll down to get through them. Last week I noticed how long the music for sale list was and some guy had 700 listings - 700, at once. This is crazy. Put a limit to the number of listings or something, say 10, after that you pay. It's looking alot like e-bayers trying to avoid fees pushing there garage sale/flea market items.
The vinyl revival won't last, so time is on the side of all the folks here who begrudge a little space for stuff that could be picked up in garbage bins, garage sales or carted away for free a short while ago. Come to think of it, most of the vinyl on sale here probably was picked up in that way not so long ago. Maybe, as I have suggested before, renaming the site "Audiogonvinyl" would attract the right crowd (yeah, the ones with ears, I hear from the gallery...) and vinyl sales could flourish. Then another site called "Audiogondigit" could be started and everyone would live happily ever after...
This Music for sale section needs to have a "member listing limit" and doing so would make the seller with the HUGE list condense the're limited ads. 1 ad could contain a list of 20 LP's or CD's. I think the free ads are fine. Just stop the ones who abuse it. Just my $.02. Rick.
Apply the standard advertising fee. I don't know of anybody who will pay a $2.00 fee to sell a $5.00 record or CD. That will eliminate the junk ads. It might, at that point, also increase the quality of what is being sold. But, I do think it is a great resource for recorded music.
Did anyone consider that those people are selling music? Do we have our noses so high in the air that unless it's 24 bit, 24 carat gold, 180 gram, digitally re-mastered, virgin, original OBI, and all that other nonesense that it isn't music? I would much prefer some of the "junk" you guys are thumbing your noses at to the over-produced, overly sterile, junk that's being peddled today as quality sound. Who the Heck needs a seventh copy of "Aqualung"? How many formats do you need to hear a piece of music in before you enjoy it? I grew up listening to Alan Freed out of New York on a smuggled am transistor radio under my pillow at night - so my mom wopuldn't catch me. Why? Because they were playing MUSIC. Tap your feet, sing-along with, can't get enough of it MUSIC. I'd rather be able to hum or sing along with a good tune than be able to tell you the proper temperature to Cryogenically freeze a CD for optimum sound quality. Sorry if I offend, but I'm sick and tired of people who listen to equipment - and totally miss the point about the piece of music being played. So, like Al Anderson says on the fabulous album "Pay Before You Pump" - I'm gonna leave a little "Hiss on you."
Too often I have gone to look at a used piece of gear only to find the idiot selling it owned a total of 6 CD's. (All made of "gold pressed latinum" mind you....)
Many "audiophiles" have a lot in common with the car audio "SPL" boys. (You know the ones who can hit the highest DB's for bragging rights? For those of you that dont know, they play a sine wave with banks of amps and woofers. Whoever has the loudest BUZZZZ wins!)
How are audiophiles and SPL folks alike? They have lost thier way. Forgotten what it is really about. MUSIC!
(I need to get back to my 1969 crummy Dead tape now.)
As long as it doesn't cost anything here and it's easier than Ebay we're going to have people selling the scorpion's and slayer LPs. I don't mind the listings, but it seems to me there was better material here before. JMO
Ed. Noses in the air? On this site? Wadda ya mean?
Let me ask this. In what way are all the "junk" LP's that some of you are whining about effecting your ability to buy the music you purportedly seek? Is it that you have to wade through what you don't want among standard pressings to find that MFSL audiophile(?) half-speed master that would otherwise appear by itself and save you grazing effort? Is it that you have to bear the utter insult of sifting through umpteen Metallica and Abba LPs' to get to that coveted Bartok? Is it that must slog through a swamp of $5 LP's to get that $30 one that just has to be better? Or is it that you resent someone listing and selling LP's without paying a fee? I don't get it.
As for myself, I've sold only a few LP's on this site and bought a couple handfuls. I got taken badly on one occasion, but all the rest have been good experiences. Taking a quick look at the feedback for those that seem to be frequent sellers on this site, it would appear that the vast majority are serving a need and doing so in a way that is not causing much dissatisfaction between buyer and seller.
Oh, and heaven forbid that a pedestrian $5 LP would find its way onto this hallowed site. I mean, really, it could lead to listings for Aiwa boomboxes. :-0
Maybe this. Mandate that every sale be an auction with $1 opening bid and no reserve. That would test the market.
Oh boo-hoo-hoo! Really, have we become so lazy and spoiled, that a second or two spent to click through stuff that doesn't interest us has become a major Herculean task of arduous labor?!!! Agon is a great audio/video website that has something for everyone, from novice to electronic master wizard. And it's a VERY easy site to navigate through, unlike a few of the other AV sites!
I've read and agreed with all of the points above being made. While i've found some "gems" ( at least to me ) here on Agon, i've also experienced the same "how long does this list go on for" feelings.
As such, i tend to agree with limiting the total number of "free" ads ( which includes "wanted" ads too ) that one can have running at one time. After this limit has been hit, "free" ads are no longer free but $0.50 apiece. Since this is next to free and one can list several items in each ad, it is not really cutting into the profit margin on any given item being listed for sale. If one can't organize their ads well enough to limit how many free ones that they have running at one time and feel that $0.50 is a rip-off to list items for sale here, one can always go to Audioshopper, Audioweb or Rec.audiomarketplace and clutter up those forums and do it for free.
This approach doesn't crimp the lifestyle of those that occasionally take advantage of "free" ads and encourages others doing so on a regular basis to minimize wasteful use of bandwidth. If they refuse to do so, they can pay the piper, which also helps to support the site that they are taking advantage of. Seems like common sense to me and nobody loses out so long as they aren't greedy. Sean >
Bizcut1, what really is the point, then? And how would you address the issue?
If the is issue is, on one hand, "audiophile" quality LP's, please provide us a definition of "audiophile" quality that can be applied consistently and appropriately. Would my second pressing of Cat Stevens, which is sonically excellent, be excluded because it wasn't half-speed mastered, for instance?
If it is, one the other hand, an issue of LP condition, tell us how a standard of, say, NM- or better can be applied on listing posted by private when the actual condition of the LP cannot be verified. Would this not lead to even more "stretching of the truth" in listings?
From a buyer's standpoint, the only salient point I can see is that one must sift through multiple listings to perhaps find that one that appeals to them. From a seller's standpoint, the only real point I see is that the "gem" I may post for sale would get less exposure amongst the otherwise "junk".
With respect to listings being free, I always figured that the goal of the 'Gon folks was to provide and easy and cheap forum in which make available MUSIC.
But, hey, I'm open to ideas. If you've different slant on this than the one I am reading, I'd like to hear it.
"Audiophile" quality. True. In the eye of the beholder. Believe me, I am not a snob or highbrow when it comes to this subject...my feeling is that, a lot of times, when a person posts their entire record collection (as some post here) it usually contains a lot of junk.
Your Cat Stevens record would not be in that category and should therefore be given serious consideration by serious buyers...but how can it be if it is "buried" among hundreds of cast-offs?
Rating a record - very subjective. Again, you're right, this would probably open up another can of worms but - maybe, just maybe, if a standard was set some folks would try to live up to it and when they didn't - well, that would be between the buyer and the seller. But, at least there would be some standards.
You know, I didn't mean to start an argument over what was or wasn't an "acceptable" recording...I never said that. Yes, yes, it's all MUSIC - I get it, I get it, no need to beat that one into the ground any further - but, a lot of it is CRAP, with no yard sale to find a final home in. And, when you purchase a record through the 'net, with all the costs and waiting involved, wouldn't it be nice if it was a quality one? You can't see it, so - how about some standards?
To Bizcut1: If I "totally missed the point" then you won't mind me starting a thread about the overabundance of ported-bass speaker listings whilst quoting you: "I'm just tired of wading through scores of "crap" listings...if I want to do that I can always log on to eBay..."
I might buy the Raquel Welch just for the cover! Is it still avaliable?!?!?!?
If I list my Laverne and Shirley "sings" LP on audiogon am I violating the 'audiophile only' proposed policy? This is not a HUGELY sought after LP but it is collectable and can fetch up to $30 or more.But who would know? *Some* would look at it and say "why is that scum bag putting a dumb and worthless LP on here"? I bet lots of those 'worthless'LP's sell. I say,leave things be.
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