Nobody's been anything here for a long time now, since before Christmas. Everyone knows it, dealers are dying, used sales are hopeless. It's called the economy. Hard to justify buying $20K speakers et al. when your job is in jeopardy and your investment portfolio is down over 50% from just a year ago.
Face it--high end audio are luxury goods. You look at your stocks and see YHOO over $200 and RBAK over $150 and you say cool! Think I'll buy those Wilson X-1s and ARC Ref 600s. Now you look at those same stocks and see YHOO under $20 and RBAK under $10, and suddenly it's a bit harder to rationalize the purchase of a ridiculous $80K pair of speakers and $30K pair of amps, huh?
It's called the wealth effect. And it ain't working in high end audio's favor nowadays.
How can you tell?
I bought a big Krell amp. The seller never posted it as sold; the ad just expired. ie: you wouldn't know there was a sale.
For most of the country, summertime is short and people tend to spend as much time as possible outdoors. The hobby tends to pick up in the late fall. Living in Florida, as I do, it is a summertime hobby since it is over 90 degrees for five months of the year. Way to hot to be outside. Don
I have to agree that the economy plays a big role in high end audio. You also have to remember that we're in the middle of summer. People have their minds set on vacation and travel. It's obvious that the forum traffic along with the amount of gear that's being listed has trickled off for the season. Hopefully things will pick up around Oct through the new year. (pre holiday, year end bonus and tax returns help to push spending)
The more important issue, stemming from both the 'wealth effect' (I have about 50% less these days, a couple ordinals 6 spaces to the left of the decimal) and 'summer' is how we respond to it.
I continue to have a strong desire to upgrade the B&K array: amp, pre-amp, and Sony DVD. So, I'll deal harder. Many of us need the cash, and I'll trade some of my short-term for the long-term.
I agree that posting an ad these days doesn't generate a lot of interest, I think it's a combination of the season and the economy. Anyone who's working in the technology sector are doing their best to hang on to their job and pay the bills. As quickly as tech ran up, it fell even harder and there are casualities. Stock portfolios have been gutted and people's careers have been ruined. As a result, you're likely to see more stuff up for sale as people attempt to generate cash from their excess gear and less sales in general as families focus on providing for the basics. I got laid off a month ago after being in the semiconductor industry for 18 years and finding new work is proving to be very difficult. If the current malaise in high tech spreads to other pockets of the economy we're in for one helluva rough ride. Enjoy the hobby, it certainly provides a welcome distraction. Jeff
I sold a bunch of stuff in the last couple months here Everything I listed. Seams when you drop the price to 50% of retail or a hair lower stuff sells. Call it a buyers market if you will. I've seen a couple great deals the last couple weeks. But I don't have any money either.
Yeah, the economy sure plays a role. It's funny how it also depends on the item you're looking for as well. I've been looking for a used rel storm III for quite a while. before i knew i wanted one, i saw a couple at 900 or 1000, then none came along. suddenly, one went up for 1100. i emailed and offered 1000. he had already had several offers at asking price. i think maybe items in the preposterously ludicrous price range aren't quite as affected as items in the stupendously, outlandishly, cosmically ludicrous range. i gotta say though, i'm sure glad i'm buying rather than selling right now. i think this gear will hold its value better than anything else i'm invested in. cheer up, it'll turn around (or it won't, but at least we could listen along the way). btw, interestingly enough, i live right by goodwin's high end in waltham, MA, one of the higher end retail businesses in the country. they're doing fabulously, making $$ hand over fist. they're even remodeling and expanding. go figure. -dave
We seem to buy most of stuff in the winter, when we are more housebound and spend more time listening. That coupled with the dump the economy is taking, is putting the lid on most big ticket sales.
I am just glad that we are happy with all the gear, both Audio and HT right now.
I was planning on buying my life-long-dream-luxury-car this fall - been planning it since last year, but now, I find myself getting reacquainted with my current car and putting that plan on hold.
According to what i've read, Americans as a whole are further in debt than we have been for MANY, MANY years. As such, things are probably tight for those that were spending what they didn't have to begin with. Things like Paypal and other online "money transfer" services made it all TOO easy to whip out the plastic and "buy, buy, buy" for a lot of people. While nobody feels the pinch WHEN you buy something, they sure can feel it when the charge card bills show up.
As such, i've purchased a few things (Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature, Sota Star Sapphire w/ Vacuum Platter, ET II arm, Millennium II Upsampling DAC, a few power cables, a digital cable, a NAD tuner for a secondary system, etc ). All of this in the last few months, and all from Audiogon ads except for the DAC. Like most others, I'm still looking on a daily basis. Obviously, i'm trying to do more than my part to keep the audio economy flowing : )
With that in mind, summer is ALWAYS slower for audio sales across the country. People are spending more time out doing "things". If you don't believe me, look at the traffic. While "El Gordo" comments that he's "burnin' up" in Florida, us "yankees" get pelted with the cold and snow in the winter. As such, i think that many people stay home and listen to their system more when the weather is "bad". As such, more listening usually results in changes / upgrades to the system. Besides that, the high air temperature and humidity levels in the summer aren't very conducive to the high heat factors generated by big Class A SS amps or gear with a lot of tubes in it. This is besides the fact that some folks don't have AC and have to listen "through" the noise of fans, outdoor noises through the windows, etc...
As such, summer has ALWAYS been a buyers market. The only problem is that since there are more audio sales / upgrading in the winter, there typically may not be the exact make / model that somebody else is looking for on the used market. In order to get someone to "bite" on something that they might not necessarily be in the market for, you pretty much have to "dump it" for pennies on the dollar. If you can't afford to do that, it's probably best to hold your ad until things pick up a bit. I know that i've pulled ads simply because they wouldn't move ( even at "budget" prices) and relisted them later at more money and out the door they went.
Audio is NO different than the stock market. Those that know what to look for and when to buy / sell will ALWAYS be "liquid". Others will learn the hard way that there is a "strategy" in any market. Sean
stop complaining! ever hear of credit cards! second mortgages? get a life, make the purchase and shut up about it!!
(at least that's what my audiophile self tells my frightened rational self every time a see a juicy piece of gear. what ever happened to 'the trickle-down?' i'm still waiting)
kubla, re: "trickle-down." suggest you check your left shoe. -kelly
Just for reference, I've made four purchases and had numerous sales in the last two months. I will admit that they have all been lateral moves, in order to play with different things. No additional money spent. I also am very careful. I look for great deals and make sure that what I buy will have resale value. The fact that I can do this is what I love about this site. My entire system, including those things I bought new from dealers, is in some way connected to Audiogon.
Wait til next year when everyone gets a check from W. I cant wait to be trickled on. Maybe I will buy some speakers made from endangered forest, hand rubbed with whale oil.
nice, blkadr. i'd like some amp stands made from gazelle antlers and maybe some speaker stands of elephant tusks. we'll have to keep our blinds closed so the heat from the depleted ozone doesn't melt our cables (which is ok cause it'll block out the view of the power plants and oil rigs) but hey...ELEPHANT TUSKS! Cool!!!
I had eight sales on audiogon during a 45 day period from May 1 to June 15. Three sales were from classified ads; five were from auctions. All three of my classified ad listings sold for full asking price - if fact - one item was sold the evening I listed it and even before I went off line. The items sold ranged from $35 to $9,000. All classifed ad items were sold for over $1,000.
Of the auctions - three did pretty well, two sucked.
As a seller I have no complaints.
As a buyer - I have not purchased anything on audiogon in a while. I think the last item I purchased was last October. My purchases since then have been limited to tubes from e-bay and some major purchases direct from trusted dealers.
However - the summer is generally slow for audio sales - so - in my opinion - if yu're going to sell something - get it done by June 15 or wait until September.
The economy is DEFINITELY to blame. Two weeks ago, I was eating in my cousin's fancy restaurant. Her and her husband also own an upscale furniture store. I spoke to them about how things were going. They said that things have been well off pace since late 2000. For both businesses. Couple that with a friend of mine who is a salesman at an Audi dealership. He has been telling me all year that things are a good 30% off from the previous year. It is just a normal human reaction to conserve when things seem to be tight. Witness the Japan of the past decade.
Ebay sales are really low as well. The only ones with any money are those north of the border. Canada's economy is still motoring along with low unemployment.
Not true. I sold three components on Audiogon in the last 3 months. Two in one day and the last in about a week for the advertized price. Depends what ya selling? MikE
I agree with mwalsdor, I sold my pass 350 and syn. cables in a week. Depends on what your selling and price. Lets face it even if you by new does anyone pay full retail NO ?
Dealers are discounting things as well . I got 70% of what I paid for my equipment,,what else can you get 70% of purchase price back.Cars No Jewlry NO . In this econemy take your 70% and run.Hell I paid $30 for PALM last year now its $6 I fell real lucky with 70%
If things are not selling here, DSSMAN may have something to do with it. I will no longer buy from someone that is not a dealer or a regular here.
dssman certainly put a sense of fear in us all. for some reason the prices of what I have been looking for are much higher lately. (BAT 5i) these were selling for $1600 several months ago, now, nothing under $2300??
I would have to agree, in fact, I was actually looking for a thread to this effect. I have been a member for over a year, and only in the last 3-4 months, have I just plain old NOT BEEN ABLE TO SELL something. I have taken a BATH on interconnects and other items where before (from about 12-99 to 12-00) you were pretty much guaranteed even money when you decided to sell (assuming you know how to buy at a good price). I guess it is just a barometer to how the economy is showing some weakness vs the .com fueled spendfest of the last couple of years...
I just purchased something this past Friday (from a seller with zero feedback and I pre-paid). The deciding factor was that he has a good last name (right up there with O'Leary). Based on this I may qualify becoming a member of Bush's cabinet (I do need a job).
The ecomomy must be sluggish. Even the housing prices in Silicon Valley is dropping. My friend bought a 2 bedroom condo for half a million last year. His neighbor is currently selling his condo for $430K. I also saw 3 local dealers putting all the gears on sale. Even the popular products were on sale (Levinson, Krell, B&W, and etc..) If sellers really want to get rid of their stuff, all they have to do is to lower their prices. Our capitalistic economy will fix itself.
*If sellers really want to get rid of their stuff, all they have to do is to lower their prices.*
This is really the point, right. It's not that things aren't selling, but just that the asking price has been lowered. From my vantage, reatailors across the country are lowering (mostly through almost perpetual sales) their prices (and hence dropping their margins). Perhaps agon sellers should consider doing the same. Especially those who are trying to sell Oracle turntables, Rega arms, and AES phono preamps (heh).
I had been looking for a used Vandersteen subwoofer for months and finally found Audiogon. While buying the speaker I noticed a Berning 2101 tube amp. Purchased both of them and having a good time. Generalizations always are wrong and self serving. I look every day for some of those things I thought I would never have
I have not bought anything either, but I did sell two items.