the last time this question was posed "new Kharma Ceramique 3.2's" it spiraled down into philosophical muck......66 posts. not much usable information....much postureing. if you look on the speaker forum, last post Oct. 12th, you can sift thru the rubble and find your answers.
good luck and wear your body armour.
I notice you're asking about the "F". The thread Mike refers to is confused regarding the version -- and indeed, somewhat philosophical, at the end of the day.
I, for one, having heard Ceramiques with my electronics (then) liked them. However, this was not @ home, and I listened to classical & blues mostly. I thoroughly enjoyed myself, but couldn't afford them :)
Mike above, uses a bigger model from the same stable, so he probably has a significant idea or two to offer!!
If you're thinking of buying, yr peripheral equipment is important; do, if you wish, mail me directly -- but as I said, Mike actually uses Kharma and is obviously more qualified than I. Cheers!
I couldnt find the controversial thread. Help please.............
Dolphin, here is a link.
The speaker you are talking about is also know as the Kharma Reference Monitor. There is a review coming by Jonathan Valin in Absolute Sound. From his comments in the last issue when he answered Mike Lavigne's letter, he made inferences to their greatness.
As a dealer for the Kharma line, I was hesitant at first because of the price, but after hearing them I understood their value. WOW!!!
could you please go into a bit more detail about the speakers?
Has anyone actually heard these speakers? If so please discripe what make them special. They better be at this price!
Ulrik: "what makes them special...at this price". A tough question!
Subjectively, I found these speakers to be very open, natural & fast in the mid+upper register, a quality I'd commonly attrubute to stators. The hi-frequency extension sounded far superior to my old stators, AS I HEARD them (my stats happened to be in the same room). The lower end was pleasing & very easily perceptible, crisp enough (I don't mean not harsh) to distinguish between plucking & a bow. The low bass I can't openly comment upon: the music was flowing (remember, I listen to classical for judging) so, harmonics must have been present. At least I wasn't "trying hard" to compensate for sounds that were not quite there -- or where too far into the b/ground when they shouldn't be -- as often happens in my case.
This all with a "normal" volume -- for me @ 15"/10" to the hr on the CAT -- i.e. on the low side for most of us, I suppose.
As to the price -- I can't judge. Take my words as a brief description from s/one who does NOT have these speakers, i.e. their only worth is in the spontaneity of my reactions to the sound -- if that. No golden ears here by any stretch of the imagination.
Others, who HAVE these or other Kharma models, can surely provide more and better details!
No doubt Kharmas a great speakers and every model I have listened to have impressed me.When we get into these prices there are quite a few notable mentions.Another superb one is the Lumen Whites(Whitlelites,Whiteflames)(*yes I am dealer for them).They also use Ceramic drivers(even for the woofers) and to me surpass the Kharmas.The technology used is rather radical(no stuffing,based purely on the shape of the cabinet to eliminate resonances)but I can tell you it works flawlessly.They were at CES last year,with limited gear,their own amps primarily,but those who heard the room were very impressed.This year they will be all over Hoviland,Ayon,Mastersound ect. and other big names.Something that you should consider listening to.Right up ther among the best of the best.www.acousticdreams.com
While I agree with Sattothestars about the Lumenwhite speakers being very nice, IMHO, they are not even in the same league as the Kharmas.
They are not as fast, not as transparent, not as resolute, not as easy to drive. They do not have as good bass, the detail retrieval is not nearly as good either.
Let me make it clear, I spent quite a bit of time with these speakers and I found them very alluring, but not like real music. It really is a matter of taste. I try to listen to live music of most kinds weekly and that is my reference.
John, sell the Lumenwhites, but own the Kharmas. :)
Brad: Sorry I did not respond sooner, I just saw your post.
The Kharma 3.2 Reference Monitor is an experience each time you listen. With most speakers I have owned and heard, I find myself breaking down what I hear; picking apart the system or focusing on their strengths or their weaknesses. Just being able to enjoy my music each time I listen to the Kharmas without thinking about the system or what can be tweaked is what they are about. They are the largest 70 lb speakers I have ever heard. The sound stage is unsurpassed. It is enveloping and addictive. The midrange is unencumbered, the highs airy and extended, and the bass is deep, dynamic and textured.
Do you think I like them? :)
I have contacted a Kharma dealer in my country and when I asked for a discount on the CRM 3.2F he said that he would give me big discount if I bought more than one set of Kharmas!! I told him that I was having enough trouble putting together the money for one set! However I did ask how big a discount he would be willing to give and he said that he would give 20% discount if I bought 2 sets! Thats pretty good. In Europe the price of the CRM 3.2F is 14500 euro. With a 20% discount it is around 11.500 euro.
Would any of you guys be interested in helping me out? It seems like a good deal for anyone looking for this speaker. If you are not interested in this model I can ask my dealer if the discount is good on other models as well.
Answer in this thread or email me personal.
see the new Absolute Sound, they
got a Golden Ear Award
Jtinn, In comparing the Kharma 3.2s with the Lumenwhites wrote that the Lumenwhites:
"They are not as fast, not as transparent, not as resolute, not as easy to drive. They do not have as good bass, the detail retrieval is not nearly as good either."
Well, we are not dealers for either, though we have been considering both for a long time. With the caveat that we have only heard them both (many times) at shows, I dissagree with about 1/2 of Jtinn's statement: It is the Lumenwhites that are faster, they have comparable bass (more quicker and detailed, less full sounding - which may or may not be better depending on your taste), and are better at detail retrieval. Kharmas are certainly easy to drive.
As far as transparency (and overall musicality), I personally value this more highly than the other attributes but have not reached any conclusions yet. If I had to choose today I would probably go with the Kharmas on this one.
Not to start anything - but I didn't want to let this one-sided viewpoint go unchallenged because the Lumenwhites are very interesting contenders in this price range.
I recently traded in my JM Lab Utopias for the Kharma's. Needless to say, I absolutely loved the Utopias, however, as I was downsizing my home, I needed a smaller speaker. I was amazed to hear, that with the exception of the bass, the Kharma actually is more extended, more neutral, frankly more musical that the Utopia. They are inch for inch the best speaker I have heard. I would suggest that the Kharma's are clearly optimized by Lamm electronics and Kharma or Purist Audio cables. And as someone else asked, the Kharma interconnects are, to my ears, the absolute best, if you can bring yourself to pay the price.
Boxer, which Kharma's did you buy? The 3.2's? I just purchased a pair of Ceramique 1's and not sure which speaker cables to eventually go with. You mentioned Purist Audio? Have you compared them to Cardas Golden Reference?
P.S. Nice user name! :o)
call the cable company,talk to robert stein,i think he has 1 pair kharma enigma cable,its the best for your speaker
Thanks adsal! I'll try that.
Don't limit yourself to just the grand enigma cables, when I heard them I thought they were very dark and slow- i.e. they removed all PRaT from the system.
I recently purchased the LumenWhites as I prefer them to the Kharma 3.2. However, I think the Kharma is a first-rate speaker.