Acman3:
Snarky Puppy ft. Bobby McFerrin:
Nice performance, let down by amateurish camera work and sound. Too shakey and too far away.
I see they formed in Texas at UNT. I asked the question some time ago, "what happens to all the students studying Jazz in college". I guess this is at least a partial indication of an answer. However they should realize they are not in college now. That college boy look will keep them for being taken serious.
Supposed Miles' quintet, had been called "Miles Davis and his Snarky Puppies"? Jazz history would be different. :)
On the other hand, this is not Jazz-Jazz, but, Fusion-Jazz. Different rules and expectations.
Cheers |
King Pleasure:
Excellent!! Loved them both!! I will have to research, and get him in my collection. How do you find this stuff??? I have never heard of him.
Cheers |
O-10:
Old vs New:
The most correct way of stating your position, which I think, is the same as mine, is that Ellington got it right way back in the day. There are two kinds of music, good and bad. It's as simple as that.
Jazz is no different than any other genre. They begin, increase in quanity and quality, reach a peak that is sometimes called the 'golden' or 'Classical' age, and then, start a slow decline. That's true for the entire genre, as well as for each individual player. The only ones that avoid the decline, are the ones that die young. They remain great, and in their prime, forever!!
As you implied, there is enough old stuff out there to take me past life expectancy. I do not feel compelled to 'move on', just for the sake of moving on. I still listen to old stuff like, Mozart, as well.
Cheers |
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I like the second "Song For My Father" but I didn't like the first one; it had nothing to do with the music, but it was taken too far away from the original; that's my "idiosyncrasy"; singers should write their own lyrics or just go "scat" crazy and not have lyrics. That's a reverent song Silver wrote for his father, and all fathers, but other than that, it was OK. The second version is better.
I will definitely have to get some more of Dee Dee, I liked her group.
Lynne Arrial and her group was nice too, I liked them all; they put a new twist on an old song.
Bobby reminded me of when I drug that cotton sack down dem long rows, ain't no shade in a cotton field. (I went to church on Sunday back then)
I bought Dee Dee's tribute to Silver when it came out.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, I never realized those jazz musicians we admire, could not have made a living without Europe and Japan. I knew about them going over there to escape racism here, but after that was no longer a major problem, I didn't realize they could not make a living without Europe and Japan even today. Have you ever sampled what passes for music on this forum? Even after stretching my mentality to it's limits and then some, I wonder how can they really like that stuff.
When I was getting into the high end, and such places as "High end emporiums" existed, I spent so much time in these places that my wife thought I was seeing another women. I was at this one particular establishment so often, that one of the customers thought I worked there. He had selected all top of the line ARC electronics plus speakers to match, and asked me to help carry it out; since I had to pay my rent some kind of way, I obliged without calling on the establishment. I was most curious as to what kind of music he was listening to on all this top of the line equipment. Since he had a CD with him I asked if he would play it.
After we loaded the trunk of his big Mercedes, I got all comfortable in the small auditioning theater, preparing myself for this exquisite music. Although I didn't know what to expect, I knew it was going to be grand. When he put on a CD of some kind of English Marches, I could have kicked myself for helping him load the trunk; you could play that stuff on a graphenola, and not miss anything. So much for matching the best equipment with the music.
Enjoy the music.
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Today I went back, way back, so far back that I didn't even know what jazz was; but I knew I liked the music whatever name they gave it. I went all the back to "King Pleasure". I can't even remember where I heard his music, it's for sure I didn't hear it on my record player because I didn't have one; maybe it was on the radio, or a juke box blaring out on to the sidewalk, since I was too young to go inside where the juke box was. Now that we have established it was a long time ago, let's hear a little of "King Pleasure's" music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2N8bVpRneQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK0Z4vqH5KMWhen I heard this, it made me feel real groovy and I was gone; I've been gone every since. Enjoy the music. |
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"The Great Lakes Suites"; that sounds so majestic, who could resist? "Free / Avant Garde school of jazz"; I always fell for that, I have two stacks of records, half of which fall in that category, they are all destined for removal. I even went to live shows when that moniker was flashed; "Now that they're through tuning up, maybe they can play some music," was always my impression. Why don't I send your friend a donation, and let him keep his CD.
I may be forever restricted to "old, new music"; it'll be new to me. Sometimes my old music sounds new, I seem to hear it better. The more new music I hear, the less I want to hear; it's like eating something disagreeable, that can ruin my appetite for days. Before I had that argument with Frogman about new music, I was constantly having it with myself; I'm glad that's settled, somebody else can pay for the "new noise".
Now that I know there's so much old music I haven't heard, I don't have time for the new, and I'm sure those poverty driven estates can use the money. Since the original musicians never got paid what they were worth, their heirs can benefit.
Enjoy the music
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*****Wadada Leo Smith; "The Great Lakes Suites",*****
Normally not my cup of tea, and squarely within the noise category.
However, I know Leo. We finished High School together. Played in the high school band's trumpet section for 4 years. He played First Trumpet, I played Last Trumpet. I took his sister to the prom. Therefore:
This is the greatest Jazz CD in the history of mankind!!! :)
He went into the Army out of high school, and played in Army Bands. His Father played the blues, and was quite big in the local (delta) Blues scene.
He is really well known in the "Free / Avant Garde" school of Jazz. Used to play a lot with Braxton and Shepp. And the guys in Chicago. Very nice guy.
Buy his stuff!!
Cheers. |
*****They gave this 4 out of 5 stars on both sonics and performance, so it's got to be hot. Let's go for "Sweet Loraine"*****
****Didn't find "Morphoses" on "you tube", this is the best I could do*******
I think enthusiastic reviews like the two above, are as a result of low expectations.
Sort of like this:
You ask a Math teacher, "whats 30 divided by 3? The teacher responds, errr duhhhh, "10" Ok, so what's the big deal? There is none. What would you expect.
You now go to the Zoo and ask a hyena the same question. The hyena responds with "10". Holy Shit!!!!!! Now this is a huge deal!!!! The biggest deal in the history of mankind!!!!
Even if the hyena had said "4". hahahahahahaha
Same with these young folks playing Jazz. You are so used to noise, and you expect noise, so that anything they play, that even slightly resembles Jazz, makes people overreact.
It's understandable.
Both clips were ok. Again nothing special. Nothing I would buy.
Cheers |
*****maybe I was wrong about Bheki Mseleku*****
Well, I'm not sure how you felt about him previously. The clip was nice enough. It didn't grate or irritate. Nothing ground-breaking. Pleasant enough to listen to. Which BTW, in this day and age is actually saying something.
Cheers |
Rok, I don't have that Roland Kirk, but I'll have to get it. Fortunately I've got almost everything by Mingus, and I never get tired of listening, his music has weathered the times.
Rahsaan is one of a kind; there have been none before him, and there will be none after him.
Enjoy the music
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OK folks, I'm doing something different this time, instead of listening before hand, and recommending, I'm going to use "Stereophile's" recommendations; and we can listen together. Ai Murakami Quartet; "Conception" is our first CD, with her as the leader. (don't ask me) They gave this 4 out of 5 stars on both sonics and performance, so it's got to be hot. Let's go for "Sweet Loraine" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAldOWTGjHoNow we're going to listen and review all these together. Next is Nate Radley; "Morphoses". Didn't find "Morphoses" on "you tube", this is the best I could do, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wue_zFaMTuQLast, but not least is, Wadada Leo Smith; "The Great Lakes Suites", this one gets 5 out of 5 stars on performance and over 4 on sonics; you know it's got to be smokin. I saw a few familiar names, although that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. The bottom line is, it's been said that I'm not ready for "new music", maybe that's so; the question is, "are you ready for new jazz? We'll listen to these and see who is ready for what? BTW just got this out of the mailbox, these recommendations are fresh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEvR_xyTnDUEnjoy the music. |
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Rok, I liked your post; that was at a different time, and "entertaining" was required; however, it detracted from the seriousness of the music.
Enjoy the music.
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Where would the music be if it were not for the 'entertainers'?
Consider for a moment, what if the first Jazz players to come out of Nawlins would have been from the Ornette Coleman school of Jazz. We can be thankful, it was the ultimate entertainer, Louis Armstrong!
Brooding, introspective, self-centered 'genuis', was not what the public wanted. It was the antithesis of what Jazz was at that time. There was a depression and / or a war going on. People wanted to be entertained.
However, I understand the sense of your post. And in that sense, you are correct. But, I consider Mary Lou's music to be very entertaining. Maybe that's the trick, express yourself, and be entertaining at the same time. That's the genuis?
Cheers |
Rok, when comparing Mary Lou, and Dorothy, you are side stepping a social issue that affected "all" African American artists at that time; they had to be "entertainers", even if they were serious musicians. This gave us "Mantan Moreland" and "Stepin Fetchit". In no way am I bringing Dorothy down to that level, I'm just expediting the discussion.
Mary Lou never wavered in regard to whether or not she was a serious musician, and not an entertainer. Although Dorothy was as good a musician as Mary Lou, her standard of living, or should I say "making a living", was of a higher priority and she "entertained". No, I'm not bringing Dorothy down, I'm simply shining a light on the circumstances African Americans were confronted with in this country at that time. Do you care to address this? If not, I'll understand.
Enjoy the music.
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Mary Lou is not the only babe in town. Today's Listen: Dorothy Donegan -- LIVE AT THE WIDDER BAR A little more bombastic than Mary Lou. Sort of like a Female Oscar Peterson. Knows her way around a piano, but stays mostly within the standards of the genre. Great tune selection. Excellent support by Jimmy Woode(Bass), and Norman Fearrington (drums). Sorry, but I could not find a Youtube clip of this CD. Avaliable on Amazon used and cheap. This is one you should buy on faith. You won't be sorry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_DoneganCheers |
O-10 & Acman3:
My Mistake. I have the RS 1500, which is a 2-Track deck. I bought the seperate 4-Track Record and Playback head assembly. It also will playback 2-Track, but not record 2-Track. Dealing with 2-Track recorded tape is a pain.
I taped all my Classical and Jazz LPs to keep from wearing them out, and also to keep from going thru all that crap getting a LP ready to play. Most of my LPs have only been played once. I look at them now and think, what a waste. Useless, but in Pristine condition.
Cheers |
Acman, and Rok, blank tape is the problem. If you know of a source of tape "maybe" it would be OK. Those machines have to be played on a regular basis, or they'll go bad. Before my machine was too old, I replaced all the transistors and capacitors; all in all, I can't say I recommend a new beginning in R2R. I started when a good R2R was the ultimate, now the computer can be raised to such a high degree of quality, that I see no reason for the R2R.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, Dbx decoders are cheap. Check and see which are respected by current standards.
I have been contemplating R2R for a long time, but have decided, at least for me, right now, two sources are enough. |
Rok, 2 Track 1500 is exactly what I have. When I recorded LP's, they sounded smoother and quieter on playback; as a matter of fact, they sounded better all the way around. I know that's not supposed to be, and it's "illogical", but the dumb machine didn't take logic, and it doesn't know that's impossible; "Reel to Reel is king of the hill."
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
I have a Technics RS-1500 under wraps in the garage. I bought the seperate 2-track head assembly. Is this the one you have? Made the mistake of taping all my stuff using DBX. :(
Cheers |
Rok, I most certainly will get it. It's so hard to believe her music was this advanced. I still can't explain why I don't already have her in my collection.
Thanks for the "you tubes".
Enjoy the music.
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Today, I eyed a file of open reel tape, and decided to give the "Technics" open reel deck a whirl. Since CD's and open reel tapes are derived from the same collection, (mine) you would think they would be quite similar, but they aren't. You see the tapes were made before CD's and consist almost exclusively of records. After going through the open reel ritual of cleaning heads and pinch rollers, I threaded a tape; "Extensions" by Ahmad Jamal. This album was released in 65, when his trio consisted of Jamil Nassar on bass, and Vernel Fournier on drums. I was told he went inside the piano, and plucked the strings on this one; I forgot who told me, but I can't seem to find anything to back that up. (A disadvantage of having a reel as opposed to an album cover) When you hear how advanced this music is, you won't believe it was released in 65. Here is "This Terrible Planet" from that album. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fQiW0Ur89EI couldn't find "Extensions" from that album, the one on "you tube" is not the same; I guess you'll have to buy the album; here are the goods on that particular LP; http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/ahmad_jamal/extensions/Here's another old record; Yusef Lateef blows more horns than you can count, check em all out on "Sister Mamie". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ycYPKijiMoEnjoy the music. |
Miles on Trane:
While checking to see if Zita Carno really did write the notes to "Giant Steps", I read the notes. My CD says they were written by Nat Hentoff. Whatever. Anyway I read this quote atributed to Miles Davis.
"I always liked Coltrane. When was with me the first time, people used to tell me to fire him. They said he wasn't playing anything. They also used to tell me to get rid of Philly Jo Jones. I know what I want though.
"I also don't understand this talk of Coltrane being difficult to understand. What he does, for example, is to play five notes of a chord and then keep changing it around, trying to see how many different ways it can sound. It's like explaining something five different ways. And that sound of his is connected with what he's doing with the chords at any given time."
Hell, that's simple enough. We Aficionados already knew that.
Didn't we?
Let me reach for 'Sun Ship', and verify this. :)
Cheers |
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Today's Listen:
Mary Lou Williams -- ZONING
Simthsonian / Folkways reissue. LP Recorded in 1974. Excellent sound quality.
Wonderful music. Every tune is 'fresh' and killer. I am beginning to see and hear her, the way the OP does.
She is joined on two of the tunes by pianist, Zita Carno. I am not familiar with her. The booklet says she is a classically trained player, but well 'attuned' to Jazz. Says she wrote notes to 'Giant Steps'
I would say, anyone that can translate Coltrane to English, is most definitely 'Attuned'. In any event, the two of them playing together is wonderful.
A couple of tunes have Tony Waters on Congas. Amazing. The music does not sound dated. It's as modern as anything being recorded today.
Re-discovering Mary Lou makes me happy and sad. Happy for the music, and sad that she and her music was so neglected, in a relative sense, by the Jazz establisment.
Ain't got it? Git it!
I noticed that her tunes are just the right length. She does not play too long. Or it could just be that, time flys when you are having fun.
Cheers |
Rok, I told you when I saw Trane and company live, he had totally lost McCoy Tyner and Alvin Jones; when they didn't know where he was, their only option was to stick with each other. Although it sounded like they were playing two different songs, that was McCoy and Alvin's only option. That was in the winter of 63 or 64.
Since they were together on most of the set, and it was only near the end of the set where Trane went to the "outer limits", that must have been in 63 when "My Favorite Things" was hot.
Enjoy the music.
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******Take your Coltrane like a man!******
I ain't scared of no Trane. Hell,. I own, and have listened to, in it's entirety, "Stellar Regions".
Kulu Sé Mama:
From the posted comments:
"even if it does sound kinda like a chicken's head being torn off in a Santeria ceremony." Some people have such talent for writing reviews.
This coupled with my 'Tyner on Coltrane' post pretty much sums it up for me.
Soul on Soul:
Again, I like to read the comments below the video. The comments on this one?
"No comments to display." Says it all.
In spite of these ' slights ', I enjoyed them both. I would not pay real money for them, but I enjoyed listening to them. Esp the Coltrane. Nice rhythm section. Tyner saved the day, and I now understand why he left right after this. Things were getting just tooooo busy!!
BTW, I do own more Trane than any other artist. He played so much great stuff, before he felt he had to push the boundaries, and fell into the Abyss, in the attempt.
Thanks for the clips.
Cheers |
Acman, you have cleared everything up in regard to the title "Soul On Soul" in regard to a tribute, or celebration of Mary Lou Williams music; it was my misinterpretation of the title. Evidently the music wasn't supposed to be reminiscent of her music, but a tribute and celebration of her music, which is different; yes it is a good album.
Enjoy the music.
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***That was a sad day that poor people will never forget.****
Probably true, but not warranted. He didn't do very much for poor people. Now Johnson did, but he was a Southerner, so he can't be given credit. Such is the world we live in.
Cheers |
Always had an impression of Tyner as a no-nonsense type player. Maybe because I felt that way about Coltrane. O-10, it looks as if you and I are not alone in thinking Trane went off the deep end.
Tyner on Coltrane:
His involvement with Coltrane came to an end in 1965. Coltrane's music was becoming much more atonal and free; he had also augmented his quartet with percussion players who threatened to drown out both Tyner and Jones: - wiki
"I didn't see myself making any contribution to that music... All I could hear was a lot of noise. I didn't have any feeling for the music, and when I don't have feelings, I don't play."
[4] By 1966, Tyner was rehearsing with a new trio and embarked on his career as a leader. -wiki
There's that word (noise) again!!
Cheers |
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Rok, I have a few LP's of Tania Maria, she seems to have gotten better; even though this is old, it's more recent than my LP's, I like it; but I seem to like everything "Brazilian".
Thanks for posting this, I will definitely add her to my collection in a big way; she takes to me to places where one can feel cool ocean breezes under swaying palms while sipping on a "pina colada", and gazing into romantic eyes. (I can dream can't I).
Enjoy the music.
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I listened and I listened, then I listened some more; I never got tired of listening, and she never got tired of coming up with new ideas. We're talking primarily bass and piano, with 3 vocals out of 17 tracks; one where Mary Lou sings "My Mama Pinned a Rose On Me", she got a big kick out of that one.
Every tune affected me in different ways; after I found out "Dirge Blues" was written for President Kennedy, I began to hear it differently; it's a blues with the sad cadence of that flag draped coffin that was carried on a horse-drawn caisson to the U.S. Capitol to lie in State. That was a sad day that poor people will never forget.
The way she can go from blues to boogie, and back to blues, or blues and boogie at the same time, is absolutely amazing. While all great pianists stand out, every note of her's seem's to ring with "Here I am, Mary Lou Williams, the little girl whose Mama pinned a rose on her"; I mean she reminds me of no one I've ever heard before, or will hear after her.
I have no idea why I didn't discover her before now, or that I knew so little about her music, but I just forgave myself, because now I have her.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, there have been many others who were "historically" important, whose music I didn't like. Unfortunately, Mary lou was in that same time frame, and I didn't bother to listen to her music, big mistake, which we are now correcting. Although I had heard Mary Lou's name often, I had no idea she was so far ahead of her time. I can certainly understand how that reviewer could say her's was the best piano recording he had ever heard; she's connecting with me on a deep subconscious level.
I recall you posting a number of female jazz pianists, some who I vaguely recall, but none whose music I had gotten into; now I'll back track and maybe post some of them.
When you receive your CD's, do a detailed review including sonics. Me and your new speakers are eagerly awaiting this event; we can all go to "Mary Lou-Ville".
Enjoy the music.
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O-10:
BTW,
Excellent statement on Dave Douglas vs Mary Lou.
Cheers |
O-10:
*****My Mama Pinned a Rose on Me*****
I notice you got the one with all the 'blues' tunes. Good for you. "No Blues, No Jazz". :) I put it in my cart also.
I am very impressed with reviews of this woman's music. I had no idea she was this important a figure in Jazz.
I bought the CDs I have because of reviews from Stereo Review. I never followed up on her as a person.
One reviewer said the Williams CD he was reviewing was the greatest, or best, Jazz piano recording ever!! Even allowing for hyperbole, that's quite a statement.
Installed my tweeter, so my Polks are ready for duty. I will post my thoughts on Mary Lou as soon as I receive her CDs.
BTW, I posted her many months ago. Ignored as usual. :(
Cheers |
Horace Silver's sound was just as unique as Mary Lou's if not more so. |
Rok, "My Mama Pinned a Rose on Me" is a real winner, both sonic and music wise; I've been in Mary Lou ville since it came today.
Enjoy the music.
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First and foremost, I want everyone to know that I am only expressing one person's thoughts opinions, and emotions, and I make no claim to speak for anyone else. This is my "subjective" opinion in regard to "Dave Douglas, Soul on Soul", which is a celebration of "Mary Lou Williams" music. This opinion in no way is a reflection of how good a jazz musician Mr. Douglas is, but how well this works in regard to Mary Lou Williams music.
Since I had a problem with the words "objective" and "subjective" with two past contributors, I'll spell it out again. People who lay claim to some kind of "objective" reality in regard to jazz, are saying you are not only supposed to hear what they hear, but the music is supposed to have the same affect on you as it did on them. I make no such claim; again, this is only one person's opinion, mine.
I listened to this music and could not hear how it related to Mary Lou Williams. While I have no objections to the fact that it was rated as a top jazz album, I could not hear the relationship to Mary Lou Williams.
Words are spoken and written, music is played and written, Mary Lou's music displayed subtle emotions, that could only have been displayed by her; it wasn't so much what she played, as it was the way she played it. Let me compare two musicians, her and Horace Silver, for example; since he wrote "Nica's Dream" and a number of other tunes, one could play his music, and call it a "celebration of Horace Silver", but in the case of Mary Lou, one would have to display her unique touch; in other words, one would have to duplicate "Mary Lou Williams" because it was "the way she played", as opposed to "what she played", and the only person who could play what she played, the way she played it, was "Mary Lou Williams"; consequently, this music fell flat in that regard.
Enjoy the music.
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Thank you Chazro for that timely contribution. Have you reviewed it yet? I'll review it the first chance I get.
Enjoy the music.
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