rok, frog, acman, I’ve been having problems with loading since at least Thanksgiving, frequently receiving "Application error" or (500) error screens without loading. I use an iMac. This can happen when I first attempt to open the Jazz for aficionados site, when I jump to the last page, or when I try to post a response. It can be particularly frustrating in the case of the latter if my post attempt was more than a few lines long and is lost.
Sometimes, immediately attempting to reload the site/page works, although any new post is lost. Other times I must back out to the Forum list and enter Music again.
I’ve contacted Audiogon twice so far but no improvement. Perhaps if everyone having problems would complain it could get their attention?
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What do you get when you combine the innately “feel good” and “up” musical personality of one of the greatest jazz improvisers and most gorgeous alto sounds that ever was with the music of Brazil?....magic: https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7C6B5ED9CF45686AHere’s the original album cover. The YouTube poster’s turntable was running a little slow. The first clip is correct, but a different track order for some reason. Love this record! : https://youtu.be/UQYqzGn8lzY |
Thanks frog. I was not aware of that album and never knew Cannonball played/recorded with Mendes.
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Pryso, we are all having the same problem.
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That album is totally new to me, but as good as it sounds, I have so much of Getz doing the same thing that I would not be able to justify buying that album; they sound too much alike doing the Bosa Nova but I'm glad you made me aware of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KpIV57PSeo |
I've been searching for new music other than Brazilian, but what I've found pales in comparison, consequently we might be awhile in this part of the world.
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According to Wikipedia; The berimbau (Portuguese pronunciation: [beɾĩˈbaw]) is a single-string percussion instrument, a musical bow, from Brazil. Originally from Africa where it receives different names, the berimbau was eventually incorporated into the practice of the Afro-Brazilian martial art capoeira, the berimbau (the soul of capoeira) leads the capoeiristas movement in the roda—the faster the berimbau is playing the faster the capoeirista moves in the game. The instrument is known for being the subject matter of a popular song by Brazilian guitarist Baden Powell, with lyrics by Vinicius de Moraes. The instrument is also a part of Candomblé-de-caboclo tradition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkZPiZ59lMEWhile I'm truly fascinated by the rhythms and dance, I have no interest in the religion other than what part of Africa it came from. Each one of these religions from Africa has it's own peculiar rhythms. How they have survived intact over hundreds of years under unique circumstances is a mystery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ1lGjziHyk |
It can be authentic, be from an indigenous group, be a heart-felt performance, be primitive, be original, and be unique, and still be BORING!
Cheers
Post some 'Sweet Honey In The Rock' They whine and drink kool-aid, but at least they sound good and speak English.
Cheers |
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Nice Baden Powell clips, O-10. I enjoyed those. Thanks! The Getz/Gilberto is a classic and I love that record, but I don’t get your comparison to the Cannonball/Mendes other than the fact that they both feature the bossa. Totally different saxophone styles, very different feels overall and one vocal one not. Glad you liked it ‘though. I have a somewhat different take on the rhythm pattern/religion connection in African cultures. I don’t think it’s any more of a mystery why this has survived than why any religion, including my RC, has held on to its religious music traditions over thousands of years. This goes to the previous discussion about drumming and its place indigenous cultures. Very important to the culture and something that is held on to generation to generation for centuries even when the people are displaced. A cultural staple if you will. One of my favorite contemporary Brazilian artists is Milton Nascimento. Wonderful song writer: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLDFA679254DC1F603&v=pn_xs6EIG4EThis collaboration with the great Wayne Shorter is a classic: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GTAIjxoSKLk |
First, let me wish all the best to all of you, first and foremost, best health to everybody. Been swimming at the sea, for Christmas, felt great, couple days later drove bicycle and been in bed since, with temperature...what a genius. Anyway, since we are on Bossa topic, couple albums that I like, ( Getz, Quebec or Hawkins excluded) Charlie Rouse, with Kenny Burrell, ’Bossa Nova Bacchanal’ https://youtu.be/6tWnWfYyuGchttps://youtu.be/F21VhioFNgchttps://youtu.be/-EqXwnYY7FgZoot Simms with Jim Hall and orchestra https://youtu.be/67i_AhoFZRwDave Pike, again with Burell and Clark Terry https://youtu.be/VXUmU9X0Riwhttps://youtu.be/_30XmNMsKvY...and, an album that I got yesterday and enjoy...not a Bossa thing Bobby Jaspar Sextet, with Idrees Sulieman and George Wallington https://youtu.be/KvHjOhGyeTAhttps://youtu.be/kzejjPRRga8 |
Rok, I have "Good News" by Sweet Honey In The Rock, and I like it; looking to add more.
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Very nice clips, Alex; thanks. Charlie Rouse playing Bossas; what a surprise! Had not heard that record nor knew of its existence. Not the style of playing nor music that I have associated with Charlie Rouse. I have always thought of Rouse: dry tone, clipped phrases, somewhat aggressive rhythmically. All good and individualistic traits (perfect for Monk’s music), but not the style of playing that immediately comes to mind in association with Bossa Nova. And it works! He sounds wonderful on this. This is one I have to find. I was intrigued by the credits on the Dave Pike album cover; another I didn’t know. Clark Terry has always been one of my favorite trumpet/flugelhorn players and he hasn’t gotten enough attention here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_30XmNMsKvYWelcome back! |
Frogman, it's only in isolated pockets of the US that anything African survived; everything African is new in the US. The "Blues" as some people claim didn't come from Africa; that came from picking cotton in the hot sun without pay; that would give anybody "The Blues".
As we know, a lot was retained in Brazil, Cuba, and the Caribbean.
Milton is well represented in my collection, and your contributions (which I enjoyed) reminded me that I'll have to put him on my playlist.
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Alex, I only know of Charley Rouse with Monk, but I really liked those Bossa Nova clips.
All those records were new to me, and made for easy listening; especially Zoot Sims.
It seems you had my kind of holiday when I was healthy enough to enjoy things like that. May you be able to swim and drive your bicycle forever.
Happy New Year!
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I thought the topic was rhythm in religious practices; not the blues per se. Still....
I suspect that it’s probably safer to not to open this can of worms again; but the origin of the blues, because of the importance of the blues in jazz, is a subject that deserves to be better understood by anyone claiming to be a jazz enthusiast. It is not well understood at all. There is much material available on the subject that clearly points to what is something that is acknowledged by practically all authorities on the subject; perhaps except “authorities” here. The blues clearly has its roots in Africa and understanding this will open the door to better understanding evolution in jazz. I encourage all to do a simple internet search on the subject; fascinating stuff.
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Debate is good, "misunderstanding" is bad. "Da Blues" is so vague and abstract it doesn't have any specific meaning. I was referring to the vocal "Delta Blues". The blues clearly has its roots in Africa and understanding this will open the door to better understanding evolution in jazz. I encourage all to do a simple internet search on the subject; fascinating stuff. "That statement is in debate". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Py37G9qsfYIf Albert King told me he got his inspiration from Africa, this argument would be settled. Of course Albert is dead, and can not speak, but if he could, he would give me that big laugh of his at the question. Let's consider Rok, our Delta Blues expert and accept his answer to settle the debate. |
*****The blues clearly has its roots in Africa******
オラクルは、スポークン
cHEERS |
The answer is this:
This has nothing to do with music, it has to do with constant effort to deny the accomplishments of black Americans. ALL music indigenous to the United States is from black folks. Black folks from the U.S. South. Some folks, mainly the Eastern 'Elites', self-proclaimed of course, just can't stomach that fact. Hence, all this African BS.
Cheers |
Has nothing to do with elitism, but simply factual ethnomusicology; however, I do realize that sometimes big hard to pronounce words carry negative connotations for some 😕. I find great irony in the fact that I can’t think of a single jazz musician that has been mentioned here that would dispute the notion. Re the distinction made between Delta blues and blues in general: Why the broad distinction? Still blues, no? Sure, it has some traits unique to the Delta, but still blues; same roots.
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I turn my back for 5 minutes and you are right back at it. If somebody didn't know better, they'd think you aren't happy unless you are arguing about SOMETHING! Not sure where this link came from (mighta even been from this thread) so, at the risk of repeating, here is something wonderful and somewhat apropos your latest "discussion". http://www.karmatube.org/videos.php?id=1312 Best wishes to all for a healthy, happy and safe 2018. |
"I don’t think it’s any more of a mystery why this has survived than why any religion, including my RC, has held on to its religious music traditions over thousands of years."
That was your statement in response to; "How they have survived intact over hundreds of years under unique circumstances is a mystery."
Frogman, did your ancestors endure a trek halfway across the continent of Africa, shackled together? Were your ancestors stored in "Barracoons" before they were loaded on ships that would take them to the "Americas", where they would be sold as slaves. They remained slaves for over 300 years. How does this compare with your history?
You stated that it's no more of a mystery than the fact your traditions survived. Do you want to reconsider that statement?
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Reconsider? Not at all. In fact, I would submit to you that their terrible hardships are all the more reason that they hung on to those traditions. They had little else besides those traditions.
O-10, in the Caribbean the religion which was practiced by slaves of African descent and a religion which lives on today even in the USA is called “Santeria”. Look up “Santeria” and what gave birth to it. You’ll find the answer there.
Regards. |
Pryso, this probably concerns you the most; I was listening to a CD of "Trane" and Johnny Hartman, and noticed how well recorded it was, so much so that it sounded like an LP.
Although I've had this CD a long time, I just noticed how good the sonics are; can't wait to get the LP.
I have the LP "Don't Go To Strangers" by Etta Jones, and it sounds as good now as it did in the 60's. Audiophiles agree that it's one of the best recorded records, meaning the original record, nothing special. It's a record you don't have to pay an arm and a leg for to get something special.
My original records sound as good, if not better than the one's I paid high prices for. My observation for the day.
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O-10, Coltrane/Hartman on vinyl is a gem; can’t recommned that Impulse/Vangelder recording enough. One of my faves. If you are patient hold out for an original Impulse, the mono version is also very good. If you have to get a reissue the Speakers Corner reissue is excellent. Personally, I would go for the original mono which will be easiest to find. Good luck. |
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As an old aficionado, I appreciate the music so much more now; that's because I hear what each individual artist is contributing to the whole. For example: "A Night In Tunisia" by Lee Morgan; "Moanin" by Mingus; Donald Byrd, "Here Am I"; What do those three boss jams have in common? It's that driving baritone of Pepper Adams, he's one of the best in the business.
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To all who have experienced problems with "Application error" or (500) error messages. I just received this reply after my second recent complaint:
"I reported the issue. Unfortunately we cannot replicate it, so it seems to be a very intermittent problem. If we hear from 2 or 3 other users about the issue it will be something we will prioritize to take action on immediately. I am sorry there is nothing more I can do to solve the issue currently."
I admitted up front it is an intermittent problem, but they don't seem to have the patience to test it several times. So I hope more of you will complain to the site managers rather than continue to tolerate their failing.
Thanks
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Pryso, I've had so much trouble trying to straighten anything out, that I find it easier to find another way to solve the problem.
Type audiogon into google and go to forums, that will get you in every time.
When I try to communicate with people about issues, I must be speaking in some unknown tongue, because we never seem to communicate; consequently, I try to find a way around the problem as opposed to solving it.
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@orpheus10 OK, I confess. I liked the clip of Miss Dee Dee and the guys from Mali. I Heard a lot of Africa and Asia in the music. Even Chinese. But, alas, no Delta Blues. Beautiful music from a very messed up place. I considered buying that CD several months ago, but decided to get this one instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2MVmC55T5sCheers |
o10, yes I have the Coltrane/Hartman album on LP and find it to be a total pleasure. Also, I'll admit I'm unfamiliar with Etta Jones. I had to look her up to be certain you didn't make a typo. ;^) But I am familiar with Etta James and offer this album for everyone's consideration. I find it to be something special - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=etta+james+mystery+ladyLastly, ghost, thanks much for that link. I found it informative and stirring. |
Pryso, this is the first time I've heard this side ( a jazzy side) of Etta James, I'll look for it. of course everyone is familiar with "At Last". I only have the CD, and I don't like the quality.
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Rok, naturally you would like the bluesy, hip swinging, "Nawlins" style; so do I. Dee Dee has a lot of different sides. |
+1 pryso for the appreciation of ghosthouse’s link; beautiful stuff. And thanks for that Etta James clip; fabulous. Love Etta James (and Jones, too). Very soulful singer. Beautiful piano by the great Cedar Walton and tasty obbligatos by Red Holloway on tenor. Here’s another favorite rendition of that great song. This time with a little less grease and a little more vocal polish; a little “Hollywood” perhaps, but great. Also, the seldom heard introduction. Not better or worse, just different: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g1-j6RcNup8 |
@pryso & @frogman -
You are very welcome. Pleased to be able to share it. |
o10, my "Mystery Lady" is on CD (Private Music D102561) and on my system it offers a very good sense of "presence*". More so than most CDs in my experience.
I'd only known Etta as a blues oriented pop singer prior to this. I've had this disc for a few years now so no recollection how I discovered it, but I continue to love it.
* Without going all audiophile geeky, to me this implies a sense of aliveness, more being in the presence of a real performance than most recordings. I've used it a few times to demo something on my system for friends.
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Frogman, out of all the fantastic female vocalists, if I was forced to pick one, it would be "Nancy Wilson".
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Pryso, without getting all audiophile geeky, I would say the same thing about Etta Jones.
I upgraded my rig in order to appreciate the many LP's I already had before CD, but now I'm going to revert back to LP exclusively.
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Wow o10, that's a pretty radical move. And a very unique one I'd say.
I still hold a preference for vinyl since it generally offers a greater sense of presence, among other things. But I wouldn't want to be without my (much smaller) CD collection. Some of those were never released on vinyl and some were purchased only after giving up on finding clean LP copies of specific recordings.
Anyway, I wish you great pleasures.
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O-10, you wouldn’t get an argument from me with that pick. I know I’ve posted this at least once before. For anyone who hasn’t heard this. Kills me every time: https://youtu.be/QBmrDS2Zhaw |
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I reviewed some new "new" music, and I bought some of it; now I don't remember what it was, do you?
We have been enjoying a stroll down memory lane with Nancy Wilson, and I have no trouble remembering this music, but I can't remember the music I bought not long ago. That tells me something, but what it tells me I'll keep to my self.
Now I know I shared this music with you guys, can anyone remember what it was without going back over old posts? Did anyone buy any of the music?
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I just
dropped by to say hello to all of you, 'cause I've been following your
discussions and posts ever since my friend Alex has recommended me this
topic.
I could
not be more grateful to him for doing so since I am jazz newbie, shame to say
that I've just recently allowed jazz music to become music genre of my interest ...so this topic is
just what I was hoping to find, it's like having deeper insight into Jazz Wonderland. And I am travelling through time. Thank
you all for this.
Don't
wanna bother you any further so will just post something that I like and wish
all of you good year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jbE8upWMwk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NReO1caQCxQ
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Nothing is more welcome here than a new aficionado, and you came bringing gifts. Kenny Burrell is one of everybody's favorite guitarists. I will have to get that album, but first I'll have to see if it can be had in vinyl.
Your friend Alex always submits fantastic albums that I don't have in my collection, I'm going broke trying to keep up.
We will be looking forward to your future submissions.
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