Jim, even within the ICE amps, there are 500W, 250W, and even 100W PC units over 8 Ohms. There is probably no need for you to acquire a set of monos that deliver 500W over 8 Ohms, but perhaps some of the lower powered units may do very well. I am thinking for example about the Bel canto Ref 500 monos, that deliver 250W PC. They are said to be even sweeter than the Ref 1000 Mk.2 that I have just reviewed for Positive Feedback. Then there are the 100W per channel amps like the Rowland 102 stereo, which is said to sound very sweet but I have not heard.
I suspect that with any powerful amps on efficient speakers one of the keys may be a pre with very fine volume control granularity. e.g. the JRDG Capri I use yields 0.5db steps on the dual speed volume control. |
"But are they in general, dryer or cooler sounding than SS?"
The answer is. . . there is really no answer, because there is no longer an . . . "in general" with ICE amps. Some of the older designs tend to be on the cool side of neutral. The more recent designs tend to fit exactly where the designers want them to fit. E.g. the Bel Canto Ref 1K Mk.2 that I review yields mounds of harmonics and has just a smidjin of warmth. It definitly does not sound like stereotypical old ICE, nor like stereotypical SS. On the other hand, it neither has a stereotypical tuby sound, although its neutrality has just the slightest hint of tubes. I have heard some comments that the Ref 500 may be even slightly more extended and may have an even sweeter treble. Guido |
Larryi, what you heard is probably the old Rowland 302. I agree completely with you, it sounded nice but it did not stir any emotions. That is why I was kind of skeptical when I first auditioned its successor, the 312. . . luckily it is a completely different beast and it is a greatly involving amp. . . and I have it in my system. But its price point is probably not what Jim is looking for, nor is its throughput. That is why I am suggesting the Bel Canto Ref 500.
Class D amps are evolving rapidly. What was the state of the art in Class D designs just a few years ago has already been long surpassed. It is not only a matter of newer modules, but also of a learning curve by class D amp designers. The Rowland 302 does not represent the current state of the art in class D sound, and your misgivings about it are quite justified.
It is worth pointing out that class D and ICEpower amps are neither inherently superior nor inferior to any other technology. I can say the same of tubes or classic SS. ICEpower modules are basic components just like 6550 tubes. One can create a very basic device with them, or one can create a cost no object amp. We can't really judge one by the other, nor we can make some broad assertions about sonic footprints of the class in general, because class D amps today tend to sound very different from one an other. |
Jim, in the Rowland lineup, there are 3 amps that may fit the bill if you augment them with a JRDG PC-1 rectifier:
Model 102 stereo -- 100W over 8 Ohms.
Model 201 monoblocks -- 250W over 8 Ohms.
Continuum 250 -- 250W over 8 ohms also contains linestage circuit of Capri preamplifier.
The PC-1 seems to greatly enhance musicality of these amps. Similar active power factor correction (PFC) circuit as the PC-1 is already built into the 312 and the Continuumm 500. |
Interesting. . . I usually get a little cantankerous with fellow Audiogoners by about the middle of August, when the temperature in my home office reaches the low hundreds. By mid september, I am typically back to my unflappable self. Unfortunately, it seems that our Bill may be a little more sensitive to heat than I am. By the time the last of the maples in western New York state are in full foliage, he starts picking fights on Audiogon. The good news of course is that by the time I fly off my 1st rocker, maples in Buffalo will be turning red, Bill will have downed his 1st flanels of the Fall season, and he will be back to his peaceble self. Excellent arrangement really, because we never seem to get mad at the world at the same time.
On the other hand, it is really too bad that he gets so cranky so easily. He would find it a lot easier to find customers for those marvellous Bel Canto Amplifiers and TEAC Esoteric players that we both love so much, if he only managed to assume a sunnier disposition during the summering canicula. Perhaps a mid year rereading of the collected works of the immortal Dale Carnegie may allieviate his obvious Weltschmertz. G.
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Sounds exciting Jim, if indeed the Wired4Sound are similar in sonic signature to the current Bel Canto Reference series, they aught to be excellent. I was hoping to hear them last fall at RMAF, but I lost my way and ended up missing the suite. I'll develop better caning technique coming October I hope. In the meantime, keep us posted and let us know your impressions if you get the Wired4Sound devices. |
Thank you Raquel, my PDF of the Mahler review shows "V1.5" in the title and one more in the sidebar on the MasterSet process. One further instance seems to have been elided during final typesetting. It referred to the new ferro-silicon mount of the tweeter as a 1.5 enhancement.
The Price of $12800 is listed. The missing mention of price increase was my bad.
Regretably I did not have an opportunity of comparing v1.0 and 1.5 side by side, hence I decided not to write a comparative review based on a 18 months old memory of an RMAF audition of the 1.0.
Regards, G. |
Macrojack, have you ever compared the JRDG 102 with the Wired4Sound? They seem to be in the same price range, although they do not use the same modules. The Wired4Sound seems to be based on the ICEpower 250 ASP which delivers 250W over 8 Ohms; The JRDG 102 is based on the apparently newer ICEpower 200 AS, which delivers a more modest 100W per channel over 8 Ohms and is thought to be a little sweeter in the treble than the 250 ASP. Unfortunately I have no direct experience with either amps, and the sound of an amp is even more the product of its design than its underlying componentry, so I can't even venture to guess which one I would prefer. G. |
Thank you Kijanki, do you mean to say that 200 AS incorporates SMPS on-module, while 250 ASP relies on external PS, which can be traditional as well as switch mode? |
Hmmm, looks like my circle of health conscious, Asian-food-loving, Icepower-module-twiddling friends may be greater than the threatened empty set after all.
BTW, Tofoo did not accompany the flat noodles with Tuk Ku choi tonight. . . slivers of tender pork lightly stir-fried with Chinese dried mushrooms of the genus Russula, soya sauce and garlic did instead. Of course, I did perfect my wife's fine preparation with a teaspoon of hot Chinese chili paste for good measure.
Now that all's well with the World. . . back to the music. Ms. Uchida playing Mozart on my 91dB sensitive Vienna Mahlers (V1.5 of course). Amplification courtesy of my 500W per channel Icepower-based. . . oops, but you already know that. (grins!)
G.
PS. Smile people, life's too short for long faces. . . |
Oh Shucks Macro. . . now my dark secret's out! G. |
Jim, I just checked the manuals. The input impedance of the JRDG 102 is 48KOhms with a 27dB gain. The 250Wpc 201 monoblock has 40KOhms input impedance with user selectable 26db and 32db gain. Have not checked the W4S, but I suspect it's going to be similar to the 201 monos. Seems to me that with your speakers, besides impedance matching, the key may be a pre with moderate gain and very fine granularity on the volume knob. 0.5dB resolution or a little better may work. G. |
"people who smoke cigarettes and eat fast food. . . "
hmmm, I may be an anally retentive listener. . . but I do not smoke and do not touch fast food. . . want to share some flat Chinese noodles stir fried with tofoo and Tuk Ku Choy MacroJack? (grins!) |
BlindJim, the W4S appears to have a slightly higher input impedance than the JRDG 102 (60.4KOhms vs 48KOhms). You might as well give W4S a try. Regarding your concerns for volume knob listening position, if you get a pre with a continuously rotating volume control and a fine resolution, e.g. 0.5dB or better, you should be able to raise the volume very gradually even with a more powerful amp like the W4S driving your sensitive speakers. G. |
