How does one get off the merry-go-round?


I'm interested in hearing from or about music lovers who have dropped out of the audio "hobby." I don't mean you were content with your system for 6 weeks. I mean, you stood pat for a long time, or--even better--you downsized...maybe got rid of your separates and got an integrated.

(I suppose if you did this, you probably aren't reading these forums any more.)

If this sounds like a cry for help, well, I dunno. Not really. I'm just curious. My thoughts have been running to things like integrated amps and small equipment racks and whatnot even as I continue to experiment and upgrade with vigor (I'm taking the room correction plunge, for example.) Just want to hear what people have to say on the subject.

---dan
Ag insider logo xs@2xdrubin

Showing 27 responses by cdc

Be satisfied with what you have. If you keep worrying there is something better out there or something is wrong with your system, you'll never be done with it.
I am FAR from being off the merry go round but anyhow.....
* KNOW WHAT YOU WANT **
If you aren't sure what you want how will know when you've found it? If there is something blantantly wrong in your current setup then there's an obvious fix.
I want neutrality. Good luck to anyone deciding to add colorations to their sound. I wouldn't know where to start. So I'm guilty of letting others form my opinions but here goes:
==>As Sam Tellig says in his Jauary 1999 Pathos Twin Towers review "over time, neutrality wears very well". Mike Sanders said in Sterephile March 2001 "An SET is fun at first but kind of grates on you after awhile.. the bad points start eating away at you...I don't think having a little less bass or a less high is annoying...the annoying thing is the higher distortion because you don't get the distortion cancellation that you do with push pull".
*** TRUST YOUR OWN EARS ******
Hearing is a skill which is developed over time and with a lot of effort. But it is subjective and there is little agreement between people on anything. You can get totally confused reading everyone's opinion on the web. Better to spend your time in the stores listening to stuff and developing your own opinions and hearing skills. Then you can be confident in what you know.
*** DON"T OBSESS OVER THE LAST FEW PERCENT ***
Wire, power cords, vibration isolation (except for TT), amber blocks, Auric Illuminator, and on and on. First there may be no difference. There is no measured data to show that there could be any audible differences (unless a mfg'r intentionally messes with the AC waveform to color the sound). Search Audio Asylum on Auric Illiminator. No one can even agree on what it does to the sound! Some say it's more bright. Others say it smoothes the sound out.
No one in the history of mankind can tell the differences between wire if they can't see it first.
These last few percent can make you loose sight between reality and fantasy. What you perceive and what really exists. If there are differences, they are extremely slight. Why get hung up on "magic sh!t"?
*** OWNING A STEREO IS WALKING A TIGHTROPE ***
I am always wondering, will buying better stuff make me HAPPY? If so, for how long? What happens once the newness wears off. When my ears adjust to the better sound?
Then I'll wonder if I'd be just as satisfied if I had spent less. Learn to accept and be happy with a bit less resolution. If someone switches components and I walk back in the room and can't tell the difference or don't care, why should I pay for that??? If a cheaper component doesn't annoy me over time why upgrade?
Is there something better out there? I don't know. Go to the stereo shop and give it a listen.
*** JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING SOUNDS DIFFERENT DOESN"T MEANS IT"S BETTER ***
You can get bored with your stereo if you spend your time listening to components and not the music. So buy more music, forget the components! I push my speakers back. Get more bass. Great! A week later I pull 'em out into the room. Better frequency response and midrange. Great! Not better - different. But that was free. How many amps should I buy to keep changing the type of sound? Gets expensive and I'm not really moving forward. Only in circles.
2nd the -embrace it- theory. If you hear the expensive stuff you may realize it really isn't as great as it's hyped to be. If you don't go out and listen, well; your imagination can play on all the hype you read and make you think $20,000 speakers are that much better than $2,000 speakers. And if you do listen and they're better, you'll only be out $18,000 :-). Usually more bass and louder spl is all you get for more money.
I read about one guy who taped a picture of some $15,000 speakers over his humble rig and imagined that was what he was listening to.
Do you get more excited about a new CD/LP or component? If the components are more interesting than the music it is hard to get off the upgrade wagon. I was looking through the Music Direct Catalog which sells everything from Creek to exotic stuff. They also sell audiofile quality music and classic music by the Byrds for example. It occurred to me that you can either stay with the same music and try to get it to sound better with better components. Or you can get new music. So is the emphasis on sound quality or the music? I get a bigger thrill with new music that any new component I can buy. Although this will probably change in 5-10 years as technology improves.
Naturally you want to get the best sound/value for the money spent but unless you can define a point of diminishing returns where further improvements are not worth the money, you'll never get beyond the equipment.
It has been said that you can get 75% of the best available sound quality for $1,000; and 95% for $5,000. To get the last 5% you could spend another $20,000 or more. It can be hard to stop or realize you're at the end of meaningful upgrades and end up spending more and more money on smaller and smaller improvements. But is this really worthwhile? If you're in this situation, DIY can be a good cure for idle hands and mind. Maybe a second system for the office or garage. It can be more satisfying than one you just go out and buy.
It has been said the best CDP made and which cost $10,000 in 1990 can be bettered today with a good quality (maybe Toshiba or Sony) CDP for $200.00. So just wait a couple of years and get better sound and for less money. Especially when you're pushing the limits of today's technology. I think this has been the case of lower cost integrated amps by YBA, Audio Refinement, Creek, and Musical Fidelity. Reviewers have said even a few years ago you would have to go with separates to get such good sound quality. Tommorrow's technology will be both better and cheaper so why not what a little bit?
I discovered I would rather listen to good music on a well set up $700.00 system than audiophile quality recordings of music I don't really like on a $30,000 system. Fortunately living in a prosperous country like the U.S., I can have both good music and a nice stereo but it helps to put things in perspective.
I'm only on the virtual merryground. Because:
1) Haven't found an improvement that is better in most ways over what I have now. There are some improvements but some drawbacks too.
2) Even if I upgrade, I still won't be satisfied and will want to upgrade more so what's they point?
Don't go for the golden ring. Be happy with "good enough". It doesn't matter how much you spend, no system is perfect.

It's one thing to go through many different systems to determine your preference in sound, but eventually you will have to accept less than perfection with whatever you own, IMHO.
Getting hung up on detail, not music will keep one constantly wanting to upgrade to improve "sound" but will this improve the "music"?
Is detail musically important? How much detail is necessary? Can overemphasis on detail draw attention away from other important problems like driver integration, even frequency balance, or ear fatigue?
When auditioning I'm in "analytical mode" and judge a stereo on analytical sound. But then I get home and want to listen for enjoyment of music which may or may not be related to the analytical reasons I got the stereo.
Also I think justifying the sound on a price basis is a road to dissatisfaction. Like saying "For $8,000 this better blow me and all my friends away". It probably won't or won't for long. Then its on to the next "fix". I think spending the money should not be a bargaining point for sound quality. Spend what you feel comfortable with, not trying to justify anything.
I have also found that when my stereo sounds good and I want to make it better, I have a 50/50 chance. That is, I have as much chance of making the sound worse as making it better.
Gonglee3, I thought Q was a measure of resonance of driver material -ie. metal rings and will have a high Q. Sounds like what you're talking about is suspension compliance or damping factor of the speaker.
Off? This has not been possible partly because new / improved stuff comes out so fast there is always the temptation to upgrade. But to slow the m-g-r I suggest:
1) Learn to read and understand specs
A lot of stuff measures so bad there is no way I even want to audition it. And for the folks who say specs don't tell the real story? Who cares, I'm trying to get off the m-g-r and crappy specs weed out a lot of stuff quick and easy. Spec's provide some grounding to reality vs. just pure opinions of mag's paid to write this stuff, emotion, or the inconsistency of our hearing when we audition in person.
2) Go DIY
If you had the best stereo would you 1) get a life (or at least a new hobby) 2) buy more music and enjoy it 3) try to keep tweaking it.
I'm guessing a lot of people would pick #3. Face it,it's a disease with no cure. Consider people who keep tweaking and make their stereo WORSE. Man, this is just sick. So
1) to fulfill the desire to keep playing around with stereo stuff
2) A hobby vs. purchased item usually involves doing something with your own two hands vs. just flipping through catalogs looking at what to buy next (coin collecting being an obvious exception unless you want the FED's breathing down your back =:-) (I'm talking DIY money in case you missed the humor).
3) If you're going to spend hours on the internet might as well put some time to productive use and make something.
4) It takes a lot of time to DIY vs. being able to go out and put a wad of $$$ down on something based on an impulse purchase. This slows you down and gives you time to think things through. Ie: I made my first speakers nearly a year ago. I'm finally getting to my new pair now - plenty of time to think things through before starting the new ones.
5) Satisfaction.
Here is my DIY stuff:
1) Speaker cables - just simple magnet wire. High purity, "perfect surface finish", thin enamel dielectric means basically air dieletric. This is even better than Audioquest electrical battery biasing to keep the dielectric lined up.
2) Interconnects - see TWL's threads here on "build this simple interconnect".
3) Single driver speakers: buy the cabinets from partsexpress.com or pay a cabinetmaker to do the box. Then finish yourself. Or you can buy kits with multiple drivers and x-overs supplied. Mine cost me $200.
4) Amp - gainclone amps like those from www.audiosector.com or scott nixon. For $200 you get an amp like the $4,800 47 Labs Gaincard. Only about 9 components to solder for the amp itself and buy an Astron linear power supply to power it up.
When I can get such good sound for $200 just can't justify spending thousands for marginal improvements and gauranteed obsolescence in a year.
Don't get a stereo that is too revealing. All you'll hear are faults in the equipment or recordings. Then upgrade is not far away.
"way things look on Agon, many are taking this advice".

Scary thing, this internet. Largely uncensored flow of ideas outside the control of "the industry".
Find a system that sounds really good for a little money. Then realize to get slightly better sound would cost a small fortune.
After all, meeting personal preference is more the goal than finding "The Absolute Sound" IMHO.
Listen to the music, not the stereo. If the stereo does not let you do that you will never be free!
Many audiophile components are voiced with a particular sound. This can be exciting at first but after a while the colorations get tiresome and it's time for a new "sound". It's all a plot so beware ;-))
Knowledge is knice, but wisdom is better.

Knowledge is the facts. Understanding is the ability to lift the meaning out of the facts, and Wisdom is knowing what to do next.

Knowledge Understanding Wisdom
Facts Meaning What to Do Next
Information Principles Application
Memory Reason Action
Scholars Teachers Prophets

Those with knowledge are able to collect, remember, and access information. They are scholars. But, it is possible to have knowledge and lack understanding and wisdom; to have the facts, but have no clue as to the meaning or what to do next.

Those with understanding are able to abstract the meaning out of information. They "see through" the facts to the dynamics of what, how, and why. They are teachers. Understanding is a lens which brings the facts into crisp focus. Understanding produces "rules of thumb" or principles.

Those with wisdom know which principle to apply now. Understanding without wisdom can appear contradictory. For example, "He who hesitates is lost", is a valid principle as well as: "Haste makes waste". We see the truth of both. But which should we apply next? Those with wisdom know what to do next; they know which way to go. They do the right thing. In contrast, there are many who have great knowledge and understanding, but consistently do the wrong thing. Wisdom, in this sense, is the goal, and knowledge and understanding only have eternal value as they result in wisdom, or what we end up doing.
All too often, hi-end audio over complicates things to justify a higher price tag, no other reason.
As for paying $4,000 to get from 98% to 99%......well some people just don't know when it's time to quit IMHO.
1) Set up every stereo in one room.
2) Listen to them all and decide which is best.

Then there is nothing more to chose from and you have selected the best stereo to your tastes.
First: try to go objective as much as possible to cut down brands to pour over. If you hate solid state, great, you have just wiped out over half the products out there. Narrow it down further to SET and you've wiped out, say, another 80%.

Second: Get components which do not draw attention to themselves. A highly colored amp (like Naim to my ears) is fun for a while (Naim has rhythm) but gets fatiguing in the long run. Sorry to all Naim owners out there - just trying to make an example.

Third: Get a system which has no blatant flaws to YOU. A system that satisfies on its own terms. Because if you listen and say "This lack of bass is annoying" or "They HF harshness is irritating" you can't listen in peace and always itch for something else (I'm not even saying better)

Fourth: Ignore magazines which try to undermine your security. Shake people's confidence in their own stereo and then they are open to buying something new.

03-29-05: Detlof: "As time went on, I was forced to realise, that my mind got more and more entrapped by the gear and less by the message the music might have to convey. This was not merely bad, because through this, I became more aware of that musical message, which managed to get through the audiophile smog"...


Could "audiophile smog" be defined as:
manipulation of the sound in a certain way, which, in turn, draws attention to the component itself and not the music?

It's no wonder people get audiophile nervosa. It plays on the thought "I just spent $10,000 on a preamp I want to HEAR what I got for my money." Result = listening to the component, not the music.

Look at new cars compared to old cars. With old cars you adjust the heat by turning a knob. With new cars you practically have to be a computer programmer to figure it out. There is no need for this complexity. The result is that it draws attention to the controls and not the act of getting some heat. Some type of pride by the designer?
Think of it like quicksand. The more you struggle, the more you sink.
A person will gradually begin to sink in quicksand, and movement will make the victim sink faster.
and it is not easy to get out once you fall in:
The force needed for someone to pull their foot out of quicksand at a speed of a centimeter a second would be the equivalent of that required to lift a medium-size car. So don't ask your friends to tug on you; they're likely to pull you into two pieces if they try hard to pull you out.
So how do you get out of quicksand? Does this also apply to stereo on a psychic, not physical, level?
The way to do it is to wriggle your legs around. This creates a space between the legs and the quicksand through which water can flow down to dilate (loosen) the sand. You can get out using this technique, if you do it slowly and progressively.
Sure, the merry-go-round goes in circles with no end. We need an "audiophile highway" with a destination.
How do you know you've gotten there when you don't know where you are going? HHhhhhmmmmmm;)