Good musical speakers that go low? Help

Drken:

My apologies to the extent this exchange hijacks your thread.

Sbrtoy:

I have run my Mahlers at various times with a Bryston 4B-ST and VAC Renaissance 140/140's Mk. III's, but mostly with Rowland Model 6 monos, which can each dump forty-five amps into a speaker on peaks (they also feature a high damping factor and high slew rate). The measurements were taken from the Stereophile Test CD 3 bass warble track played on a Levinson 37 transport into a Levinson 360s DAC into a Shack meter, all readings corrected for the meter's calibration errors. Cabling was all Kimber Select (including the digital cable, which was a Kimber Select 2120 XLR).

I stand by my above comments. If you use an spl meter and test disc in your listening room, I suspect you'll find that the deep bass is not there (unless, of course, your listening room has a particularly sharp mode in the bottom octave that the speaker is exciting). It is interesting that Sumiko, the U.S. distributor for Vienna Acoustics, has never published a real frequency response figure for the speaker's low bass performance, saying only that the low bass extends to 22 Hz. (without decibel information, this figure is meaningless).

As for Stereophile's measurements, I think it is a bit much to dismiss them out of hand.

In my main system, I use Salons, which measure flat at 20 Hz. in my listening room, and can say that the Mahlers simply do not compare in the very bottom octave.

PS - If you have actually measured the woofers and find them closer to eleven inches than ten, I stand corrected. Sumiko's website say this about the Eton woofers: "Woofer: 2 x 10 in. honeycomb cone".

Raquel,

I disagree, in my smaller room with the setup I mentioned the midbass was not overcooked, so setup as always is the key. Also as far as deep bass, the Mahlers do quite well on organ music, and pick up much deeper bass than the Von Schweikert VR4 jr's I have used in the same room, which claim to extend into the 25hz region, and several magazines have mentioned this if this is criteria used. Rolloff at 40hz? I don't think so, maybe if you electronics can't produce it. I believe what I hear, not what magazines print. The Eton drivers are excellent pieces used in many high end designs that definitely do not roll off deep bass, their resonant frequency is 21hz with a -3db point of 25hz for the raw drivers. The port on the Mahlers is tuned in the 26 hz range from my research, which would also indicate strong output down to this frequency rolling off quickly 3db below this. Also if you do some research, Eton is a german company, the drivers are measured in metric units and they are closer to 11" than 10".

I would think of vandersteen 3 with the sub. I think that is about the best sound you can get for the money. And then you are naturally bi apming the low frequencys and the highs. I think there is a major advanage to not running big bass out of your main amp. Also you can optomise the base by tuning it seprate from the rest of the speaker and placing the sub in the sweet spot for the room, this really helps if you have a room that is not perfect for audio it really lets you tune the speakers which is just as important as the speaker itself. I have 2ce sig with the sub and I think they are grate and one of the most netural for the money.

Regarding the above post about Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and their bass performance, I have Mahlers in my second system and really love the speakers, but it is incorrect to say that they excel at the reproduction of deep bass (40 Hz. and below). In fact, they begin to roll off below 40 Hz. and are down a good 12-13 db. at 25 Hz. according to Atkinson's measurements. In my room, they are likewise down a good 12 db. at 20 Hz.

The Mahlers have very impactful, powerful midbass (40 Hz. to 80 Hz.) that makes them sound very compelling in large rooms (and makes them sound like hell in most smaller rooms), but if it is deep bass you want, I suggest you look elsewhere. In any event, speakers that do deep bass tend to be hard to place properly and often end up sounding lousy as a result (for example, my Salons were never right in the bass at our old apartment).

PS - The Eton woofers are ten-inch, not eleven-inch.

Look for Vienna Strauss or Mahlers, these have amazing bass impact, especially the Mahlers with the dual 11" Eton honeycomb woofers which are some of the best bass drivers made, and are really truly underrated speakers. I had Mahlers, sold them, and now have bought another pair because I missed them. There is a pair of black Strauss I almost bought on Agon right now for $3300. The Mahler/Strauss have awesome furniture grade finishes, so the wife issue sould be less of an obstacle. The rosewood in particular is very nice, and is what I have repurchased.

Fostex f200a ,30hz 21khz very detailed bass with no bloom wonderful sound across the range due to advanced cone ,milled basket[not cast or stamped like the other loudspeakers mentioned]a true hiquality driver available in a few loudspeakers or DIY your own.It also features a milled alnico maginet instead of the cheap pressed powder mags the others use. http://www.audiocraftersguld.com/Xtreme/xtreme.htm

I recommend auditioning the Tyler Linbrook Signature System speakers... They go for about 3.5-4K used, and has some very nice low bass extension that is quite musical.

---Dave

I would check out Legacy Audio's Focus or Focus 20/20's. I've had 2 pair - lots of tight bass, very musical and even the "S mag" likes them! They should be in your price range used and they look like fine furniture, so the WAF is quite high.

Actualy its probably going to be two different systems but thanks tvad.

I agree with the Von Schweikerts. I also like the sound of Dynaudios depending on how much money you can spend. With their floor standers you will not need a sub, especially if they are only for music (excepting pipe organs and such). Of course if you subscribe to the REL theory that subsonics add to the music, a small sub doesn't hurt. Good luck and have fun!