DAC Input Topology

Such hand wringing over minutiae! Uncertainty in timing (jitter) was a problem solved decades ago! Aurender's touting of their proprietary OXCO clock is hype to beguile the technically ignorant. Today's three-figure streamers are just as capable of transferring a bit-perfect file as as a four or five figure boutique streamer. A streamer is a router. It transfers incoming files to a digital processor (computer or DAC). Why spend thousands on Aurender? Is it a neurotic compulsion to spend money? Get an iFi Zen Stream and you'll be fine!

@jasonbourne52

I have an iFi Zen Stream and I’m trying to make sense of Aurender’s claims. My iFi Zen Stream has their top power supply and sounds good and sounded better than my previous analog system, but doesn’t match my analog whereas many Aurender systems compete with high end analog. I prefer Roon vs Conductor, but Aurender users, not all, seem taken with their higher end AES/coax outputs. I’m questioning if this is due in part to the methodology used to capture the signal.

I question the need to spend so much on the Aurender. The internal parts count is only a fraction of the retail price. The enthusiastic claims by owners is after all subjective. I'd like to see some measurements comparing it to the iFi. 

Regarding the Analog vs. Digital debate I felt for a long time that the LP beat the CD. More listening has reversed this! The inherently higher noise floor, inner groove tracking problems, dynamic range limits and summed bass are serious restrictions of LP playback. Not to mention all the error-prone steps needed in LP production from the master to the vinyl pressing.

I just now saw a Lumin D2 for sale here in Agon.You might consider this over the Aurender. $1800. The D2 has been very favorably reviewed!

Like @jasonbourne52 ,

1. " I felt for a long time that the LP beat the CD. More listening has reversed this! The inherently higher noise floor, inner groove tracking problems, dynamic range limits and summed bass are serious restrictions of LP playback." (I quoted since I can’t say it better.)

2. I doubt the benefits of an expensive streamer. I have an Auralic G1, which is wonderful and provides a lot of frills: nice display, reliable WiFi, built-in DSP, ease of use, and so on. I have compared a $150 streamer made with Raspberry Pi and Allo DigiOne card, and I am hard pressed to tell the sonic difference. I suppose if I listened to the same track over and over again, I might hear a small difference, but I am not sure of that. I love the Auralic, but for value, I’d recommend looking to something less expensive. ... Of course, you are looking for something with a DAC, and good DACs are getting shockingly cheap these days.

That's not a specific recommendation, but just my views on the current digital market.

I've never for one moment regretted purchasing my N20, it's a fantastic machine that can only be truly appreciated by long term in home listening.

Maybe you can get some better sounds by cobbling together this and that with various computer programs but for me time is money and with the N20 I have everything at my fingertips. I could have bought the N30 but the N20 is 99% as good. While not exactly a bargain but SOTA.

I have settled on this cable after trying many much more expensive ones. It's solid silver and IME much better than AES/EBU. Long burn in required.

Now I’m looking at the Aurender N20. The selling point here is the OCXO clock, which is four to ten times more stable than the Holo’s clock.

If you believe the dac in this streamer is better than the Holo, then there’s no reason to keep your Holo.

I seriously doubt that a streamer’s Dac will perform better than the Holo May DAC KTE. First of all, it’s a R2R design so without it or bypassing it, your digital playback will have a different sonic signature. The Holo is much more robust with a huge power supply, and uses high quality internal parts. The streamer you’re looking at can’t possibly fit this technology inside its chassis. Your Dac is much more than a dac chip. It would be foolish to not allow the Holo to reclock the stream.

@lowrider57

The streamer/DAC does not have an internal DAC. The significance of the stable clock is that it can produce an extremely low jitter on the AES/EBU, BNC and Coax outputs. I was questioning if the Holo can take advantage of this given that the clock quality/stability is very good, but 4-10 times less stable than the Aurender clock. Most N20 and higher owners prefer listening with AES/EBU vs USB where the DAC clock is responsible for keeping jitter low as it decides packets passed via USB.

@vonhelmholtz 

I didn't realise the Aurender you were referring to is a master clock, sorry. That is the way to go in your high-end setup. Maybe a call to Kitsune will provide options. Some dacs have a word clock input which is separate from signal in.

@vonhelmholtz 

taken from your post-

”I was questioning if the Holo can take advantage of this given that the clock quality/stability is very good, but 4-10 times less stable than the Aurender clock”.

How did you come to realize that the clock in the Holo May is 4-10x less stable?
 

@designsfx 

It was stated in an article that I read which explained the differences in clock technology where it stated the OCXO was 4-10 more stable than other clocks.  Of course atomic clocks are better yet and really expensive.  Aurender has an external atomic clock that is more expensive than their flagship server/transport.

@vonhelmholtz-

I’m not a “clocking” expert by any stretch of the imagination so take this for what it’s worth but as the N20 you’ve inquired about isn’t functioning as a master clock (meaning there are not clocking outputs and the Holo has no clocking inputs) then one could only expect the benefit to be seen (if any) within the quality of the signal sent from the Aurender. If this signal were superior in performance (audible or not) then the Holo’s PLL function would see the benefit. My understanding of a PLL circuit is to regulate the incoming data stream via VCO to keep all within spec. Again, I’m not the expert but without a Master clock both devices would only be working within their own capabilities.

@designsfx 

Yes, your understanding seems valid.  Perhaps at some point I will purchase a DAC with clock sync inputs, but good external clocks seem to be rather expensive.

My fallback was USB and the May DAC KTE makes claims regarding the quality of their USB interface.  In fact USB is the manufacturers preferred input…I’m trying to decide on if I’m buying a high quality USB, or AES cable.

I believe the manufacturer has already answered your question. 

I thank everyone for their input.

I purchased a used N20. I recognize that the value proposition for such a purchase is debatable. I will, at some point, report my experience with the N20.

Congrats on purchasing an outstanding piece of technology!