Amp design logic


I hope you'll excuse my absolute and obvious ignorance...but this is a sincere question.

I don't get why one company is selling a new tube amp for ~$1000, and another is selling one for ~$50,000. What is one paying for? The proprietary circuit design?

Surely if one adds up the cost of the parts, trannies, chassis, etc. it's not worth $50K.

I accept that the more expensive one sounds lots, lots better. But what makes the price so high? Demand?

I think given a circuit diagram from a repair manual, I could eventually build most tube amps from scratch, using the absolute best of each part available. After I learn to solder. For less than $50K, just buying the best cap, resistor, wire, etc. made, for each part, I could slowly build an amp equal to the best in the world. So I don't get it.

What makes an amp worth $50K? It can only be the proprietary tube amp design.

Maybe another factor is the transformers. Each company seems to have their own iron, but that can't be a significant part of $50K?

Thanks, just really wondering about this. And wondering why don't I just make my own? If I buy one part at a time, eventually I can have the best amp there can be.

Jim
river251

Showing 4 responses by atmasphere

River251, here are some other things I did not see above.

A $1000 amp is likely mass-produced where is $50,000 likely is not. So any vendor offers price breaks on parts- the more you buy the cheaper they are. If you have an assembly line, which is practical for less expensive amplifiers made by larger companies, you can further drive the price down.

There are other factors- parts being one. However there is also the labor. Some $50,000 amps may be entirely handwired (our MA-2 is exactly that but is only $42,000/pr :) ). Handwiring is often more labor intensive than circuit boards. But it gives the designer the ability to control stray capacitance better than a circuit board, due to the dielectrics involved (fiberglass, which is a poor dielectric, as opposed to polyethylene, which is pretty good, for example).

In addition there is the overhead of the facility, the overhead of legal fees (patents, lawsuits, legal advice). There is also the formula for markup, which I think is where many audiophiles might feel that they are being taken for a ride. Some companies mark up by a factor of 5 and others even 10x. FWIW we have a markup of 2 times. This allows us to replace the sold unit and build another after that. IMO that is enough to make an honest profit, OTOH those that know me well know that I got in this business because I enjoy it rather than to make a fast buck. I should also point out that high end audio is a very finicky market that is also very competitive. Thus the saying about 'if you want to make a small fortune in this business, start out with a large one' applies.

Lately, Chinese parts and assembly has become an issue even in high end audio. Many companies that don't want to admit it have their gear made in China for a lot less. This puts a squeeze on those who are still holding out by using better, non-Chinese parts that should be more reliable (and also more expensive), not to mention the labor issue.
Wolf_garcia, 'capable', true enough. But if they do is another matter. We build a guitar amp for a company here in town. They got in some parts from China for testing.

One of the parts was a filter capacitor for the power supply, rated 47uf at 450V. It looked a little peculiar- most tubular electrolytic capacitors have a metal end of the part and an insulated end, with a crimp around the body of the insulated end. This one was crimped at both ends and was insulated at both ends. It was branded Nichicon, a respected Japanese brand.

We took it apart as it seemed odd. Turned out it was a shell, a ruse: inside we found a different part, marked 22uf and rated 400 volts (with a name on it I could not pronounce)! Imagine if we had used that in a 450V application...

So yes, the capability is certainly there, but the intention is another matter. And even if there is the intention, such a manufacturer has to be on the lookout for parts like this.

some Chinese component weirdness can trickle in

'Trickle' is really an understatement. I can give you plenty of other examples if you like. Just the tube sockets alone are example enough! Filter caps have been problematic as well as semiconductors, in fact in the semiconductor realm its become quite risky to buy parts off of ebay and the like because there are so many knock-offs now that won't meet spec.