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Spectron Musician III Signature vs VTL Siegfried?

I have the Musician III Signature two months. In my review, a month ago, I wrote:

"the sound, excellent to begin with, dramatically changed for the better. The highs became something magical, I never heard such in any solid state or tube amplifier. Totally silky and extended to heaven!!!! The "see thru" soundstage became immensely three-dimensional, truly, I feel sometimes that I can touch musician, go around him or her, and soundstage huge to begin with became even more specious! Midrange became "alive" like in the best tube amplifiers I ever owned or even auditioned, its magic feeling!!!! Base have now both: more authority and startling clarity - so different from one-note solid state and mushy tube base. I can play it quietly and I can play it loudly - no slightest strain. Additionally, black background became even blacker again as never in any other amplifier I auditioned in the past. It adds to the overall "magic".

Last week, I got well broken in VTL Siegfried monoblocks for a a few days of auditioning. Spectron cost $$6.5k, Siegfried - $35k. Spectron weight 50 lbs, Siegfried - 360 lbs. Both declare power into 8 Ohms - 600 watts and and into 4 Ohms - 800 watts. Headroom, Spectron 3600 watts over 330 msec, Siegfried - unknown. As a matter of fact, VTL except power and few others does not disclose its specs even such important as bandwidth and distortions.

OK, playing - both show big soundstage and good imaging. Treble is Spectron's domain, VTL sound simply murky and veil. Midrange is warmer in tube amp, very pleasant on ear. Bass - here is my problem. First, I though VTL bass is better - weightier and richer. Next I compare a few discs and to my surprise I am starting to believe that this monster tube amp bass is full of distortions, full of warm rich details which are not present at all in cello which I played and Spectron is accurate and after few days even surprisingly for me, I fall in love with Spectron bass - rich weighty. Perhaps, one detail. I am not sure I can physically hear deep bass but I can feel it, my chest is "shaking" my listening chair leather is vibrating etc. I hear it in Spectron very much and just a little bit with Siegfried.
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I am eager to know if anybody else have experience with Musician III Signature vs best tube amplifiers? Thank you very much for reply
dob
emailists
923 posts
 
I'm taking this thread even more off topic, but since someone mentioned the PS Audio GCC series, I'll add this.

I have a GCC100 as modded by Underwood/Parts Conextion. The top mod I have does in fact upgrade parts in the Ice modules themselves.

I had the amp stock, then had it modded so I could clearly hear the improvement. The gain cell volume is a huge boost in transparency. This integrated amp on a Power Plant offered some of the best Solid State I have ever heard.

I also own some ATma-sphere MA1's (older 12 tube) and when I finally retubed them and hooked them up to my Cerious Speakers ( I figured I should hear the tubes and maybe sell them) I was shocked at how much more like real music they sounded like. It was like going from a 2D high definition image to a holigram. Great I thought, I can just sell the GCC. Well then before selling the GCC I thought just as an experiment I should hear it on my woofer section and the Atma's on the mids/highs. Well that was expensive, since I now have to keep the GCC. The bass is quite tight and being able to dial in as much or as little bass as needed is welcome after so many years without tone control.

I have also heard the Sigfried but only at the NY hi fi show, and have heard the Tron 300B, but in an unfamilar system. I was surprised how well the Tron fleshed out the bass.

Did I appologize for taking this off topic?
dob OP
577 posts
 
To Emailist,
Well, I made inquries as the the mod:

Level 2 modification
--------------------
One sheet of SoundCoat chassis damping material cut & applied where applicable
One sheet of ERS EMI/RFI suppression paper applied in critical locations
Twelve Japanese Riken ½ and 1 watt signal-path carbon resistors with gold-plated leads
Five feet of DH Labs 18-gauge Revelation Series pure 99.999% silver solid-core input signal wire with Teflon tape-wrap dielectric
One pair of premium WBT-0210-Cu 'direct gold plated over copper body' RCA female jacks
Four premium WBT-0763 single output binding posts
Four EAR large Sorbothane isolation feet
Ten feet TRT WonderSolder used throughout
6 hours labor
Note: This mod does not contain any ICEpower module changes and is covered by the full PS Audio factory warranty.

Level 3 modification [$1,295 retrofit to your GCA/GCC 100, and $2,995 for GCC-500 for the same power level as Spectron - to compare apples with apples]
========================================
The Level 3 is the same as the Level 2, plus upgrades to the ICEpower boards. These upgrades are:
Eight more Japanese Riken ½ and 1 watt signal path carbon resistors with gold-plated leads
Four Black Gate ultra-premium electrolytic capacitors
7 hours labor (one more hour than the Level-2)

So, for three thousand dollars you got parts substution and even not the best in its class (Ricken is cheap resistor with relativey poor bottom. When the same modifier wanted to install better quality he/they used Tantalum by Audio Note - just a few dollars more).

SHAME !!!!!!!
=======================
I started the this thread not to discuss expensive part sabstitutors (prostitutors?)
but to compare best in class D design versus best in tube design amplifier, If you have anything to add then please do so - otherwise, please start your own discussion
Thanks.
simontju
257 posts
 
Hello Dob,
I agree with you fully. Musician III Signature is a killer, just a killer. I have it, matched to my own tube preamp and it drives power hungry Diapasons by Shahinian Acoustic. I, tried it with borrowed ($20k, sorry) BAT flagship preamp, REX which IS THE BEST preamp in the world and Spectron bloomed, just bloomed.
I think that people who buy $20k-$30k components do not realize that this $6k - $7k (retail) amp is incredible performer, particualarly for difficult to drive speakers.
Thank you.
Simon
Disclaimer - I do audio engineering consulting and BAT as well as Spectron are companies are worked.
dob OP
577 posts
 
to Simontju,
Thank you Simon, I also noted that most of Spectron owners formerly owned tube amplifiers and compare Spectron to the tube gear - theirs or others. Also, many of them have very difficult speakers to drive.
Rgrds
steinbergj
2 posts
 
I've listened to a lot of amps over the years, and built a few, too: mostly triode tube amps. As the years passed, my audio budget became more ample, and I have been able to try
just about all the "killer" amps out there, tube and solid state. The good news is that the art form is actually improving. The bad news is that audio mags and their advertisers have done a great job pushing the price of amplification skyward. But I was prepared to suck that up, and just get the "killer amp" that would make it unnecessary to wring hands again about amplification. At least for several years.

Hearing the Spectron Musician III Signature has put an end to my amp questing. There just is no amp out there that combines the authority, tonal rightness and delicacy of this amp. It will drive anything, and laughs at tough loads that send a lot of amps into deep depression. {I've used it with the Shahinian Diapasons (19K), which are notoriously tough to drive, and also with the new Fried Reference (25K) which are not) But what really blew me away is how the M3 Sig does so with utter transparency and tonal accuracy. Its treble reproduces the almost-impossible-to-reproduce sound of massed violins with no haze, no glare and enough vividness that you feel you can hear the rosin on the bow. Voices have the kind of immediacy that many associate with single ended tube amps. And when it is time for the kettle drums in Malher, or the juicy bass of, say, Charlie Haden, the amp controls the speaker with complete authority. Not just firm bass; rock solid, clean, REAL bass. [NB I was a symphony musician for several years. Sitting in the middle of an orchestra really teaches what real instruments in real space sound like.]

All of this performance for so few dollars, comparatively, and with complete reliablility and no furnace effect. Yikes!

I was prepared to spend up to 30K for amplification, and end the quest. I was thrilled to spend less. But I am even more thrilled to be out of the amp-comparing business. Its just not as good as listening to the music.
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