Spectron Musician III Signature vs VTL Siegfried?


I have the Musician III Signature two months. In my review, a month ago, I wrote:

"the sound, excellent to begin with, dramatically changed for the better. The highs became something magical, I never heard such in any solid state or tube amplifier. Totally silky and extended to heaven!!!! The "see thru" soundstage became immensely three-dimensional, truly, I feel sometimes that I can touch musician, go around him or her, and soundstage huge to begin with became even more specious! Midrange became "alive" like in the best tube amplifiers I ever owned or even auditioned, its magic feeling!!!! Base have now both: more authority and startling clarity - so different from one-note solid state and mushy tube base. I can play it quietly and I can play it loudly - no slightest strain. Additionally, black background became even blacker again as never in any other amplifier I auditioned in the past. It adds to the overall "magic".

Last week, I got well broken in VTL Siegfried monoblocks for a a few days of auditioning. Spectron cost $$6.5k, Siegfried - $35k. Spectron weight 50 lbs, Siegfried - 360 lbs. Both declare power into 8 Ohms - 600 watts and and into 4 Ohms - 800 watts. Headroom, Spectron 3600 watts over 330 msec, Siegfried - unknown. As a matter of fact, VTL except power and few others does not disclose its specs even such important as bandwidth and distortions.

OK, playing - both show big soundstage and good imaging. Treble is Spectron's domain, VTL sound simply murky and veil. Midrange is warmer in tube amp, very pleasant on ear. Bass - here is my problem. First, I though VTL bass is better - weightier and richer. Next I compare a few discs and to my surprise I am starting to believe that this monster tube amp bass is full of distortions, full of warm rich details which are not present at all in cello which I played and Spectron is accurate and after few days even surprisingly for me, I fall in love with Spectron bass - rich weighty. Perhaps, one detail. I am not sure I can physically hear deep bass but I can feel it, my chest is "shaking" my listening chair leather is vibrating etc. I hear it in Spectron very much and just a little bit with Siegfried.
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I am eager to know if anybody else have experience with Musician III Signature vs best tube amplifiers? Thank you very much for reply
dob

Showing 8 responses by dob

I don't think so. They are busy with their professional audio amps. They are designing 8000 watts and not peak, continious amp (!!!!!!!) and they presented the prototype a few months ago at NSCA convention in Orlando, FL. I don't think they will be at CES 2008 but I heard already 6-7 speaker manufacturers asked them to let then use their latest amp at CES
I called them - No, they will not. If one of the speaker manufacterer will go there then you will see this amp there but they did not anything about it.
Meanwhile, I was able to listen Musiciam III Signature with fantastic tube preamp, Einstein and with this amp it was heaven, just heaven
To Tweak1
Hello,
You wrote "PS Audio GCA or GCC modified by Underwood HiFi, or the guy that PS recommends in their Forum section,will be tough to beat for a lot less $$$$$$$"

Firstly, you did not answered my question. Secondly, you did not compare (as I understand from your brief comment) your favorite amp with Musician III Signature. Thus, how you can say one is better then other is beyond me.

However, I want to make two comment in response to your post
a) PS Audio, with legion of others, just buy 3d party digital modules (ICE, Hypex etc) and put into chasses without any change whatsoever (like Bel Canto) and glue the label with their name or at best put their own power supply - usually, borrowed from other units. Next, you music lover compare the sound coming from the exactly the same module (i.e. output stage) enclosed in the red box vs one enclosed in green box and judge one to sound better then another.
Its not funny, its really sad. Only two or three US companies make their own digital amps - Spectron, NuForce and one more, I forgot its name...

b) Since your modifier cannot possibly open closed digital module from the 3d party all that they can do is tinker on the edges. At best, they change a few capacitors and few diodes in power supply, binding posts and other simplest possible manial job and, Tweak1, they charge you rather big money - around $1k. All this stuff real manufacturer includes in their Signature Edition(SE) like NuForce and Spectron BUT, BUT, Tweak1 - they also change the heart of digital or class D amplifier - digital module which is responsible, frankly for nearly 100% of the sound (not counting effect of power supplies).

Finally, what I said is not related to modifying CD/DVD/SACD Players - peple like Stan Warren, leave only digital chips and chasses and build their own output stages and re-build power supplies. Depending on the modifier, its the most economical path to get excellent digital front.
Regards,
RD
To Emailist,
Well, I made inquries as the the mod:

Level 2 modification
--------------------
One sheet of SoundCoat chassis damping material cut & applied where applicable
One sheet of ERS EMI/RFI suppression paper applied in critical locations
Twelve Japanese Riken ½ and 1 watt signal-path carbon resistors with gold-plated leads
Five feet of DH Labs 18-gauge Revelation Series pure 99.999% silver solid-core input signal wire with Teflon tape-wrap dielectric
One pair of premium WBT-0210-Cu 'direct gold plated over copper body' RCA female jacks
Four premium WBT-0763 single output binding posts
Four EAR large Sorbothane isolation feet
Ten feet TRT WonderSolder used throughout
6 hours labor
Note: This mod does not contain any ICEpower module changes and is covered by the full PS Audio factory warranty.

Level 3 modification [$1,295 retrofit to your GCA/GCC 100, and $2,995 for GCC-500 for the same power level as Spectron - to compare apples with apples]
========================================
The Level 3 is the same as the Level 2, plus upgrades to the ICEpower boards. These upgrades are:
Eight more Japanese Riken ½ and 1 watt signal path carbon resistors with gold-plated leads
Four Black Gate ultra-premium electrolytic capacitors
7 hours labor (one more hour than the Level-2)

So, for three thousand dollars you got parts substution and even not the best in its class (Ricken is cheap resistor with relativey poor bottom. When the same modifier wanted to install better quality he/they used Tantalum by Audio Note - just a few dollars more).

SHAME !!!!!!!
=======================
I started the this thread not to discuss expensive part sabstitutors (prostitutors?)
but to compare best in class D design versus best in tube design amplifier, If you have anything to add then please do so - otherwise, please start your own discussion
Thanks.
to Simontju,
Thank you Simon, I also noted that most of Spectron owners formerly owned tube amplifiers and compare Spectron to the tube gear - theirs or others. Also, many of them have very difficult speakers to drive.
Rgrds
Hello,

I have my Signature, now, with more then 1000 hours burn-in. To my amazement, the amp continues to play better and better. Specifically, background became significantly more blacker. The top obtain some really heavenly qualities, bloom if you wish for luck of better word. ,Midrange has more finesse and bass is tighter which is very, very pleasant to hear. Its truly the best bass I ever heard in my entire life (except live concerts, of course). Its sound very different then 500 hours ago and it still improving..... I can't believe it!!!!!
Rafael
USE OF BALANCED INTERCONNECTS in Spectron:

Thank you Guidocorona and SimonTJU for bringing the subject of balanced class D amplifier versus single ended... You both are right, there are certain advantages to use them in balanced mode. Yesterday, I changed my interconnects between my preamp and Spectron amp from SE to balanced and.... to begin with, I think sound pressure increased by 6 dB so Spectron should change specs info in their web site. HOWEVER, sound became more "musical" more liquid, more "seductive" - slam appeared to me stronger (vicious!) and bass somewhat deeper. I have read your discussions and expected some changes ...but not as much. I can only wonder how Spectron will sound in balanced monoblocks mode....

One more thing - before, I had to turn off my amp every night but I don't need to do it anymore and background became even more blacker. Verrrrrry nice.
Thank you, guys again!
Rafael
Hello Cyrus,
Molly does compared , in one of his posts, rather favorably two ultra expensive MBL monoblocks vs single stereo 6.5k Spectron. I would bet that Molly's praise for Spectron would be even higher if he would compare two MBL's with two Spectron monoblocks in fully balanced mode. Still, even two, Spectron is many times cheaper then MBL's...
All The best
Rafael