subwoofer for music?

01-02-14: Bob_reynolds
Will 2 subs help stereo imaging?
I don't think there is any notion of imaging at bass frequencies.

Really? Well I have a notion of it because I hear the imaging pop into 3D when I get subwoofers integrated properly. It's not that subs image all by themselves; it's what they do along with the mains. There's something about reproducing strong fundamentals and room energy that provides a better foundation for the overtones handled by the L-R speakers, and that improves imaging and soundstage.

BTW, YES, you can get strong, deep bass from 6-1/2" woofers. I have a pair of Mirage M5si's, which have two 6-1/2" woofers, one facing forward and one back. The cabinets are large--50"h x 18"w x 8"d, or about 7,000 cu. inches. You can't make a categorical statement based on driver diameter. Stiffness and weight of the cone plus driver excursion (how much air does it displace?), and cabinet volume are all part of the equation. Fed enough power, my Mirages can make deep, loud bass.

With Stereophile's test CD I have verified that my 6-1/2" woofers take me flat down to 29 Hz and are still usable/audible to 26 Hz.

If you look into the OP's speakers, you'd find that each column is packing at least 3 woofers--one forward facing and additional internal ones making an isobaric arrangement. Since the speaker is discontinued it's harder to determine the exact alignment, but they either fire downward into the plinth (as in other Neat models) or the energy exits via the rear port. At any rate, isobaric alignments are capable of quite a bit of bass, and at good volume.

To the OP: I recommend a pair of JL Fathom F110s or F112s, whichever your budget can allow. Integrating a single sub can be full of compromises; integrating a matched pair is relatively easy and does more to improve imaging as well. It also doubles the low bass they can reproduce. I'd go for a crossover frequency of 40 Hz.

Main benefits of two subs is smoother response across the room plus of course twice the drive for the lowest octaves, which benefit the most from additional power and drive.

Crossing over to subs for lowest octaves also helps take load off main amp and speakers and generally results in better performance there than otherwise as well.

Stereo imaging gradually becomes less of a phenomena at lower frequencies, but I would expect some benefit there as well, especially if subs are crossed over in a manner that offloads more rather than less of the bass. So its less of a benefit at lower frequencies, but not completely a non issue, yet one that alone probably would not carry as much weight but can only be better and not worse with two subs rather than one.

So you can see that using one big sub rather than two smaller ones is a decent option still that works perfectly well for many even though there may be tangible benefit still in many cases with multiple subs.

In the case with seemingly fairly full range speakers already like the OPs appear to be, probably only larger and more powerful subs capable of substantial output 30 hz and below will be off benefit.

Many smaller subs are designed to supplement smaller monitor type speakers with limited bass extension already. These will add little if any value if used with good quality more full range speakers already. So larger good quality subs that use larger drivers (12 inch or larger most likely) are probably needed for true benefit and good ones will also tend to cost more accordingly. Check out frequency response specifications or even better any published measurements if available to help confirm that a particular sub has the low end extension and response needed to add value to an already mostly full range system.

"You can't make a categorical statement based on driver diameter. Stiffness and weight of the cone plus driver excursion (how much air does it displace?), and cabinet volume are all part of the equation. Fed enough power, my Mirages can make deep, loud bass."

Here's a categorical statement: If all of those other parameters are equally optimized, the larger driver is capable of producing lower, louder bass. The dual 7" drivers in my Paradigms come no where close to matching what I get from the dual 10" drivers in my B&Ws, with or without adding subs.

Agree with Kr4.

You can make general statements about the capabilities of larger drivers over smaller. Of course not all speakers/subs that use a particular size driver are created equal, but in general larger drivers have more ability to deliver extended low frequency response than smaller ones. Multiple drivers also help. Its basic physics that is well documented and fairly easily understood compared to many things in "high end audio".